Stats can be seperated into two sets.  Base attributes, and calculated stats.   Str, Dex, Ess, Wis, Int, are all Base attributes.  Whereas Mana, Mana regen, Attack, Def, are calculated stats.

Calculated stats should be wholy derived by a calculation on Base attributes.  Eg  Attack = Str/10*Weap atk.

Combat speed is a hybrid.  Yuo can modify it by spending pooints in it at level up.  But it is then modified by equipment.  I propose that Combat speed be changed to be wholly calculated.  ie, some function of Dex and equipment modifiers.  This would bring it into line with the rest of the stats and attributes. 

The formulae i put forward would be:  Combat Speed = Movement Speed(map) - (Sum of Equip penalties) + (Dex/10).

therefore a Sov with no equipment (Standard map movement in Beta2B is 2), can make 3 moves worth 1 combat speed each turn, assuming Dex of 10 (average).  However, the same sov wearing Full Plate (-.5 Combat movement), will only get to make 2.5 moves.  and if their dex is only 5, they only get to make 2 moves!

I tossed the idea out of actually makking speed some function multiplied or divided by Dex, because I didn't like the diminishing returns that occured as Dex got large.  ie if the formula had  Penalty/Dex*10, then an increase of 5 wuold yeild a .4 decrease in the penalty, but a further increase of 5 dex would only result in a further .1 decrease in the penalty.  (Assumed Equip Penalty total was 1).

Does this solve the issue you are seeing TyLarson?

From a design point of view, derived (calculated) stats should use formulae that make it easy to remember what effects the outcome the most.  Using to many input attributes(base attributes, eg Str) makes the particular stat seem like a black box thing.  Dex is intuitive to link to combat speed, and initiative.  Only people well schooled in thought would see how intelligence and wisdom effect Initiative (I've assumed you meant initiative as in who attacks first...).

Top Tips: Keep formulae simple.  Try not to use more than 2 base attributes.  Publish the formulae somewhere so maths guppies like myself will be happy 

Lots of good points you make stillsingle. You could post an explanation of each attribute in the Hiergammonpedia and the mathematics behind it for those interested. Most won't need the equations but there are enough math nerds out there that want to know how things work.

You probably phrased things in a much more positive light then I did. Rather than get rid of you chose move away from and if I had done the same there would probably have been less ire.

@TyLarson, No way am I going to be writing the formulae in the Heirgammopedia!!   I've worked out formulae before from playing a game so that my bro and I could re-write it to be easily playable in Windows.  It is HARD, and requires a lot of reperformance, testing of the formulae you come up with, and then reperformaing agian.  Also, If the formaule are too complex, it is very much beyond my capabilities to work out the formulae knowing only the output and guessing at the inputs.

@tasunke: exactly. I think it would be a simple thing to add in and that the attributes should handle more than one thing which was the whole point of why have a strength stat if all it does is add to attack? Just have attack then!

I could see strength as being a requirement for using certain weapons and armor. This would solve some of the issues with a lightweight beating an expert because of equipment.

For example: The fallen discover a new alloy of Midnight and meteoric iron that creates an almost indestructible weapon able to cut through almost anything...one problem is that it is ten times denser than steel. Since most swords are between 2 lbs to 5 lbs it would mean that no normal human would have a chance at wielding it! But a troll or an ogre would be able to use a broadsword (which for them would be like a dagger since they are so much larger) to devastating effect. Or a mighty champion with a strength of 20 would be able to wield a small sword (like a gladius or epee which would be around 20 lbs) with great effort and a champion with a strength of 30 could wield a claymore made of admidnightium lol.

I don't know if adding requirements would be good or just annoying. Realism vs gameplay is a serious question as always.

How about..

Essence = max mana + mana regen (let's say mana regen is 10% per combat turn) Maintaining global spells reserves Essence so it effectively weakens your spellcasting ability if you want to maintain a permanent Thunderstorm over an enemy city. This would nicely limit nasty global spells to being cast from the safety of your tower. So it would be either adventuring or global magical warfare but not both unless you're uber powerful. Combat mana/stamina should be separated from global mana.

Intelligence = spell research, makes learning new spells faster (let's assume Sovereign contributes to spell research when stationed in a city) Intelligence by definition should be associated with learning rather than raw power.

Wisdom = pointless, axed

Spellpower could simply be a modifier that comes from experience levels + any extra mana put into a spell. Let's say all spells would get a 5% increase in power with every experience level. 10th level Sovereign would get 50% more effective spells while a 20th level Sovereign's spells would hit twice as hard. Before any other specialization or equipment modifiers.

I was thinking of how you could make the traits more interesting and useful.

I believe Brilliant gives you +2 to Research each turn...By itself it doesn't make that much sense as you could have a stupid sovereign take it and be just as good as a genius character.

If you must keep the DnD scale then have the bonus modifier equal to (Int - 10)/2. So a Sovereign with a 14 Intelligence which is pretty decent would have a + 2 bonus or the exact same but if after some leveling could actually improve it.

I think most of the various traits should be modifiable.

Another option as I've written before is that I don't think that you should be able to modify your stats "naked" on the sovereign creation screen. All stat modifiers should be from traits that you pick both from a roleplaying point of view and to encourage more variation in characters as the traits could have little extra modifiers. If you're' brilliant' when your intelligence is 13 what are you when your int is 23?

Use a hundred points: (attributes cost 5)

Genius: +3 Int and double the mod bonus for other traits. Genius can take many forms. 25 points.

Scientist: +2 Int and for each spell in a school you learn you get (Int - 10)% bonus to learning the next one. So starting out you'd get little advantage but in the end game you could learn spells in half the time because of your systematic approach to understanding magic. 20 points

Daring: +2 strength, + 2 dex, + 2 con. Use your Dex Mod (dex-10) as a percentage chance to bypass defensive bonuses. 40 points.

Stupid: - X Int with X providing 4 extra build points.

Wealthy: Starting Sovereigns have 500 gildar but those of Wealthy background can add 500 gildar per 10 build points. (This would be the only way to purchase rare items before game start such as demon swords). So you could spend 20 build points to start with 1500 gildar and have a huge advantage in the early game but pay greatly in the late game.

Mercantile: Mental traits + 1. Civilization gains additional gildar based on mental traits of sovereign. Int, Wis, and Cha all provide obvious routes to making money as a smart merchant can plan better, a wise merchant knows when to hold 'em, and a likeable merchant makes more contacts. So take each att and subtract 10 to get to bonus. Int 13, wis 12, cha 13 with this trait would provide 8 extra gildar a turn. 30 points.

Mighty: +3 Strength + 2 Con. Can wield two handed weapons in one hand allowing use of a shield or if using both hands gain a + (str-10) bonus to damage. 40 points

Curious: +1 Int. Gain a +int bonus% chance of finding goodie huts or finding better stuff lying around. 10 points

Fire Mage: + 1 Strength. Access to fire spells. 10 points

Summoner: +1 Intelligence, +1 cha. Access to the school of summoning. 20 points

Blacksmith: +2 Strength, + 2 Con, + 1 Int. X Discount on all equipment purchases at character creation and from merchants in your cities to mimic that you crafted your own equipment at cost. 40 points.

Artist: + 2 Cha. 1/2 cha bonus to prestige and cities can build art galleries. 20 points.

So in the end you'd have your profession, your major talents and personality traits, and then an equipment purchase screen in which you spend gildar rather than build points. This way of character creation gives a lot of variety compared to just sinking points into stats, enhances the roleplay as you could have quests that only pop up for those with that trait (Only the 'Mightiest' can challenge a giant to a drinking contest), and you can have a lot of different builds that have subtle differences and advantages in the late game or in the early game.

While playing with 3A I thought this thread was worth revisiting.  It is quite frankly not very intuitive to have many statistics that round off to the tenth decimal place, particularly when it is rounded to a whole number in some screens (e.g. Food at the top), or the actual calculation's impact is rounded off to the hundredth decimal place (e.g. +0.25 for weapon speed) in other game areas.  It shouldn't take much time to revamp the numbering system for attributes, combat speed, etc. etc. to WHOLE NUMBERS.  There is nothing wrong with a "Base 50 Strength" and a Strong Guy with "75 Strength" if it is explained.  This entire D&D framework and decimal point advancements are just too much convoluted mathematics that detracts from the core game.