Game aint that strategic. Is it me or stardock?

By on June 12, 2010 12:58:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Grove12345

Join Date 05/2010
0

SO played 2 tiny maps for about 6 hours. Man those tiny maps are HUGE. Might not be fun at all to play HUGE maps.

 

Anyways, i didnt experience too much strategy in this game.

1. Terrain on a tile doesn't have any effect on movement across it or defense bonus.

2. If you have units in a town Anything to increase the defense of the soldier or have artillery support for attacking. Any benefits for defending a town?

3. Tech research gave me no idea what does what. Random researching.

4. Towns management was vague or just bland

Overall i kind of liked it but was expecting ALOT more complexity in the game.

Im not going to complain too much now since its the beta I KNOW. Magic isnt in yet, strategic combat isnt in yet, diplomacy isnt in yet.

But the devs said they are just tuning stuff and tweaking. Then that means they wont be adding much at all. Really think they should have a full unlock beta soon, so we can test out their final product ideas.

If you see some strategy formula i dont, please let me know.

I think the major flaw with me is that i was not made clearly aware of any receiving benefits. If a hill gives you  a defense bonus or a tech helps you alot with population or attracting quests, but nothing is labeled to do so... i think players will be left in the dark.

 

Locked Post 19 Replies
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 1:29:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

terrain does affect movement speed.

i agree with the lack of tech descriptions, but i imagine they'll add it in.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 1:32:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

i agree if this was the only thing in the game, but there are 3 whole research categories blocked out and each race will have its own research tree.

 

2) there are buildings you can build after researching some warfare techs that give units in a city a defense bonus

 

3) agreed i also don't like random research that much:

a) you can't go for a particular tech

b ) most techs feel interchangeable, there is no high end tech that takes a while to research since the research cost is determined by the techlevel  and not the tech itself. to give an example if i research warfare and i can get heavy plate or boywers it just don't feel right. boywers should cost much less.

 

4) it is hard to distinguish between the buildings, and the town look too planned in my opinion. they should look much more natural like medieval european towns:

randomly rotate some buildings, have buildings of the same type merge with each other when on adjective tiles

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 2:11:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Bear in mind that this is the beta.  They've mentioned in the update schedule that some things, like art assets, aren't going into the game until release, and they aren't done sticking everything into the game yet.  Some techs, for example, have no effect right now (I'm looking at you, katanas), and the tactical battle system isn't in the game yet, and neither are spells.

Just give it some time.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 3:36:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Nktalloth,
Bear in mind that this is the beta.  They've mentioned in the update schedule that some things, like art assets, aren't going into the game until release, and they aren't done sticking everything into the game yet.  Some techs, for example, have no effect right now (I'm looking at you, katanas), and the tactical battle system isn't in the game yet, and neither are spells.

Just give it some time.

 

no Like i said i know its beta and they will add more. But just b/c they add more doesnt mean it would be fixed.

They can add 1000 more tech skills or buildings. But that wouldnt solve the problem.

I will lay off complaining about battles since battles WILL change. But i think we have to pressure them to change the town building/appearance of towns and skill tech deciding. If you agree that is.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 4:37:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

i actually really like the random research.  i understand its a bit strange, but remember your not inventing this stuff, your rediscovering it.  they have said before that they will be secretly adding in rare techs without telling us so that we can truly discover some unique things.  this is a fresh idea and i can overlook a little bit of oddity in the value of things. 

keep in mind that there are still techs that require other techs in order to get them.  it makes sense that that heavy plate and bowers are similar in cost because you have already spent research researching light plate and other armor types.  this would be like a carpenter learning how to build furniture.  sure its different, but he is already an expert in some of the tools and techniques in cutting wood, this would help learn quicker.  however is said carpenter tried to learn how to fix car engines he would have to start at the bottom, and spend more time with educating himself.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 4:55:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,

SO played 2 tiny maps for about 6 hours. Man those tiny maps are HUGE. Might not be fun at all to play HUGE maps.

 

Anyways, i didnt experience too much strategy in this game.

1. Terrain on a tile doesn't have any effect on movement across it or defense bonus.

2. If you have units in a town Anything to increase the defense of the soldier or have artillery support for attacking. Any benefits for defending a town?

3. Tech research gave me no idea what does what. Random researching.

4. Towns management was vague or just bland

Overall i kind of liked it but was expecting ALOT more complexity in the game.

Im not going to complain too much now since its the beta I KNOW. Magic isnt in yet, strategic combat isnt in yet, diplomacy isnt in yet.

But the devs said they are just tuning stuff and tweaking. Then that means they wont be adding much at all. Really think they should have a full unlock beta soon, so we can test out their final product ideas.

If you see some strategy formula i dont, please let me know.

I think the major flaw with me is that i was not made clearly aware of any receiving benefits. If a hill gives you  a defense bonus or a tech helps you alot with population or attracting quests, but nothing is labeled to do so... i think players will be left in the dark.

 

 

1.  It does effect movement and while it doesn't give a defense bonus to autoresolve that we can see, remember that individual tiles in the tactical battle WILL give bonuses of some sort.  So the landscape will come into play, we just don't see it yet. 

2.  There are techs that give you this.

3.  I really like the fact that you can can't just map out a perfect research path.  I've always thought the Civ way of doing it was trite and overly simplified.  That said, the research and tech system certainly needs a better presentation.  There are changes they can make to keep it somewhat random and still present it to the player in a more concise, enjoyable way.

4.  This is something I think will develop more as we (beta testers) give feedback on the pacing and flow of the game.  it needs work, but I think it's an area that will get work. 

They aren't at the "final product" ideas stage yet.  That's why Frogboy asked for feedback on pacing and presentation.  You figure in Beta 2A you have.. maybe 40% of the final game?  That's a guess, but I doubt that it'd be any higher and is probably much lower. 

We're realistically in the very first stage of beta.  Beta 1 was really Alpha testing, they just didn't call it that. 

As a whole, information needs to be presented to the player better, but that's the sort of feedback they're looking for at this stage.  That doesn't mean the information (bonuses, stats, and whatnot) isn't there.  It just means it not made clear very well yet.

 

Edited for typo that changed the whole meaning of a point.  Doh!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 5:43:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,

SO played 2 tiny maps for about 6 hours. Man those tiny maps are HUGE. Might not be fun at all to play HUGE maps.

 

Anyways, i didnt experience too much strategy in this game.

1. Terrain on a tile doesn't have any effect on movement across it or defense bonus.

2. If you have units in a town Anything to increase the defense of the soldier or have artillery support for attacking. Any benefits for defending a town?

3. Tech research gave me no idea what does what. Random researching.

4. Towns management was vague or just bland

Overall i kind of liked it but was expecting ALOT more complexity in the game.

Im not going to complain too much now since its the beta I KNOW. Magic isnt in yet, strategic combat isnt in yet, diplomacy isnt in yet.

But the devs said they are just tuning stuff and tweaking. Then that means they wont be adding much at all. Really think they should have a full unlock beta soon, so we can test out their final product ideas.

If you see some strategy formula i dont, please let me know.

I think the major flaw with me is that i was not made clearly aware of any receiving benefits. If a hill gives you  a defense bonus or a tech helps you alot with population or attracting quests, but nothing is labeled to do so... i think players will be left in the dark.

 

 

1. It does effect movement, and according to tool tip it should give defense bonus as well (haven't tested this)

2. Later on you get walls.

3. Most of this problem is incomplete tool tips. The tool tip for the techs are basically the tech name. Which says to me that it's place holders.

4. Buildings do look a bit "samey", and some buildings could need some better tool tips. And a "why you can't build it" marker. We'll probably get some more choices to make in the cities once all the tech is added. You would need buildings for magic teching and farming + probably some that is just for diplo and adventure. So no city could do everyting. Atm I doesn't really start differentiate between cities before around level 3

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 6:12:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

My main complaint is that the game is too linear. There are few choices. I know exactly what my first town's first 6 buildings will be. And while you can specialize towns somewhat, it seems like it takes an hour or to just to have the economy to make a small army. Maybe something's up with the pacing? Because right now this game makes Sins of a Solar Empire look short.

 

Food is very hard to obtain, because I feel like gardens are a waste of space. Farms are too rare. Materials are common, but it takes SO long to build that lumber camp (12 turns). I barely seem to have enough building slots to build enough farms for my houses, and it just takes 3 markets or schools and my slots are full.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 6:44:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Beric01,
My main complaint is that the game is too linear. There are few choices. I know exactly what my first town's first 6 buildings will be. And while you can specialize towns somewhat, it seems like it takes an hour or to just to have the economy to make a small army. Maybe something's up with the pacing? Because right now this game makes Sins of a Solar Empire look short.

 

Food is very hard to obtain, because I feel like gardens are a waste of space. Farms are too rare. Materials are common, but it takes SO long to build that lumber camp (12 turns). I barely seem to have enough building slots to build enough farms for my houses, and it just takes 3 markets or schools and my slots are full.

 

There is an option you can change at game creation (not sure if it works yet or not) to modify the pacing of the game. I imagine this will work the same as Civilization 4's "Game Speed" "Epic, Normal, etc". 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 6:45:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Since the WAR and the MAGIC parts of Beta 2 are disabled, it probably does feel a little less strategic. Keep the ideas rolling in though. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 6:49:58 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

That said, the research and tech system certainly needs a better presentation.
  This is something I completely agree with...when you make a breakthrough, and you have the option of a RED (very rare) tech, it should feel like Christmas morning and you've just unwrapped a Red Ryder bbgun (or something). Right now it's really steril and very uninformative.  Improvements are in the works...for techs and pretty much everything else in the OP's list

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 9:09:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Food is very hard to obtain, because I feel like gardens are a waste of space. Farms are too rare. Materials are common, but it takes SO long to build that lumber camp (12 turns). I barely seem to have enough building slots to build enough farms for my houses, and it just takes 3 markets or schools and my slots are full.

Perhaps food is meant to be scarce? 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 9:41:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Ron Lugge,

Food is very hard to obtain, because I feel like gardens are a waste of space. Farms are too rare. Materials are common, but it takes SO long to build that lumber camp (12 turns). I barely seem to have enough building slots to build enough farms for my houses, and it just takes 3 markets or schools and my slots are full.

Perhaps food is meant to be scarce? 

 

Perhaps, or maybe it's just the Beta 2 map? Food was much more common in Beta 1Z.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 12, 2010 10:18:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sooo...if food is hard to obtain, how can gardens be a waste of space? I like the new maps lack of food bonuses compared to the earlier ones. The gardens work just fine in my opinion and I like choosing between them or gold/military/research buildings.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 13, 2010 5:29:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Dedicated farm cities work quite well.  Especially next to that wild game slot in the middle of the map.  I don't know if that's the intent, but you can indeed form a breadbasket for the empire.

Trade will also enhance the amount of resources produced (at least gildar and materials, I don't know if food is included in that.)

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 13, 2010 9:20:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Istari,
Since the WAR and the MAGIC parts of Beta 2 are disabled, it probably does feel a little less strategic. Keep the ideas rolling in though. 

LOL.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 13, 2010 10:01:55 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Dual_CoRed,

Quoting Istari, reply 10Since the WAR and the MAGIC parts of Beta 2 are disabled, it probably does feel a little less strategic. Keep the ideas rolling in though. 

LOL.

So Beta 2 = Elemental: Of

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 13, 2010 10:14:31 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Thiryn,



LOL.
So Beta 2 = Elemental: Of

 

Awesome.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 13, 2010 10:29:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm hoping they turn more 'on' sooner rather than later as I'm having a difficult time recommending pacing/balance adjustments with much of the game still not in. As of right now it is overly simplified and I'd love to see how all the basic systems interact. My fear right now is that Elemental will remain RPG-lite attached to a simplified TBS. I'm hoping all systems will be moderately complex and varied, but I fear that might not be the case considering many of the suggestions with cities and research. The backup plan will be the modding tools and maybe that's what the devs really intend.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108432  walnut2   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000250   Page Render Time: