R.I.P Newzbin , closed over Legal Action...a Resource Lost...

Man...this is complete SHIT!!!

By on May 18, 2010 5:12:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

RavenX

Join Date 10/2008
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Newzbin has arguably been the "Best" source and index listing of what is posted to BBS Newsgroups around the world. BBS stands for Bulletin Board System and almost every Internet Provider in the entire world provides access to them as part of your Internet package. Whether you're old enough to remember or not, BBS's are the Foundation of the Internet. These are the Original Internet. In many ways this is what the Internet was built on. If you had to compare it to something physical, use this example. You buy some land and build a house. That land is the Earth, your foundation. That land, that Earth, is the BBS system of Newsgroups. It's what the Internet was built on. Think of every website in existence as a "House", sitting on the land. Without getting extremely technical that's the best analogy I can give. It is a flawed analogy, it's not exactly accurate, but it's close enough.

I've been a free member and user of Newzbin for well over the last ten years (No, it's not just for pirates and hackers). in a way you could also compare BBS Newsgroups to MIRC back in the day before ICQ and Yahoo Instant Messenger and Skype. Think of Newzbin as a site that would tell you what everyone was talking about in various channels on MIRC. That's what Newzbin was. You had to either be a paid member of the site or you had to be INVITED by a paid member and were given a basic free membership. It wasn't always "Invite Only", but when they switched to that system everyone had to make new accounts and if you weren't already paid or re-invited you were locked out, sorry about your bad luck. Luckily, as I was a free member, a friend (who was just a random Internet stranger at the time) re-invited me and I was allowed back in.

Some people, namely those who used Newzbin's service, are going to greatly suffer because of this. It was an invaluable tool to help people find needed information quickly and easily. Any information at all from examples such as "Legal Statutes from cases dating back to the Early 19th Century" to "Online Legal Copies of Every Book in the Library of Congress" to "Discussions being held by College Physics Professors" and also "Doctors Sharing Research Up-To-The-Minute". It was as much a listing of communications as these very same forums are. BBS Newsgroups are nothing more then that. People talking back and forth in topics just like this. The exception is back then our ability to post and reply wasn't set up like this, so every post made, whether it be a new topic or a reply to that topic where it's own "Thread". Newzbin helped organize those threads and posts and show you where things were so you could quickly find them.

Sadly how-ever, as with many technological innovations in our day, some people chose to use these for evil purposes. Even though these "Newsgroups" are intended for communication, and to provide a backbone for the rest of the Internet, they are also used to host and share files with limited "retention". Every ISP on the GLOBE must have space on the BBS Newsgroups for their systems to work. I don't know why or how it's set up exactly, I don't work for the cable company so I can't tell you why they even have to be there at all, but they do. More and more ISP's these days Are Limiting or Flat Out DENYING their customers access to these Newsgroups. If your ISP isn't giving you access to them, you're not getting everything you're paying for and you should call them and DEMAND Access as a Paying Customer. Far be it from me to tell you what to do, it's no skin off my shoulder if you enjoy wasting your money, but I know I don't like wasting mine.

When I say some people use Newsgroups and by default the listings on Newzbin for "Evil" I mean piracy of course. Newsgroups go by the more common term Usenet. Still, Newzbin as a website did NOT HOST OR SHARE ANY FILES. All it did was tell people where files were at, in what groups they were listed, and what the file names were. It did this because technically these posts on various Newsgroups were the same as the other topics or "threads" or "conversations", it just so happens some of them are pieces, usually .rar's, of games or movies. The same kinds of things that can be found on any Torrent site.

Newzbin did nothing wrong. People did have LEGITIMATE USES for it, just like they do Fogbugs, or Photobucket, or many other sites. Newzbin was closed because they owe money to people I believe. I didn't know anything about any of this or it's legal trouble before finding THIS ARTICLE when I tried to log-on to Newzbin today.

If you know or heard anything about this or find a site that talks a little more in depth, please let me know as I'd like to find out all I can about it being shut down.

Hopefully some of you out there see this for what it is regardless of what the causes are. Another place being closed because someone thinks they're losing money over piracy and pressured some Government to take action. Newzbin wasn't just a site for pirates or other thieves. It had real value. Eventually, slowing, this is going to turn into a legal and virtual "Witch-hunt" by Governments to shut down more and more sites limiting knowledge and people's freedoms Online.

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LuthienStarshine
May 22, 2010 9:15:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Jafo,
However...as far as MY IP is concerned....I decide when it expires....and that will be once I shuffle off this coil.

No, you don't. Copyright laws grant you a monopoly over distribution and use of your works but impose a limit on how much time you have that monopoly before your work becomes public domain.

You can't decide to have it expire later than the maximun time allowed by law.

Though, for practical purpouses, you are totally right since copyright expiration times have been absurdly extended beyond their original intention of promoting knowledge and useful arts.

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May 22, 2010 10:08:33 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Pulling out the straw man, are we?

This is NOT what I or anyone else here is saying

In which case it's the guy doing the copying, not the library, that is in the wrong.

But when the guy is using the library's copy machine...the library has a responsibility to montior it.

Like I said...you can't have your cake and eat it to.

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May 22, 2010 10:22:35 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

A lot of software companies now are going the 30-60 day route of 100% fully functional program, after the trial, it loses functionality, this is a very good way to slow it down, lets face it nothing is worse than spending your hard earned money for software, that just doesnt work properly,all of my software i have tried for at least 30 days then i purchased it, i could have gotten away with not paying the price, but with a legit version you get tech support, updates, etc but the trial thing is necessary, for instance i was looking for something to catalog my dvd collection, its a good thing for the 30 day thing, cause the one app i almost bought didnt do a few things and i would have been out that money, i ended up buying DVD Profiler, which is excellent, and they offered the trial which is why i bought it cause i tried it out, loved it, then bought it

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May 22, 2010 1:28:58 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

What is the Hurt Locker lawsuit?

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May 22, 2010 4:56:50 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting LightStar,

What is the Hurt Locker lawsuit?


 

Try here:  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3ia3e81d4dc935f423aef090323c40270a

They're just doing what the RIAA did and, might I add, failed to do. The RIAA sued all over the place, didn't stop piracy though. So of that 50,000 they'll wind up suing grandmothers who let their grandchildren use computers, or just hit the wrong people because they can't be bothered to verify their information. Fighting piracy with a giant gavel didn't work before, and it's not going to work now.

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May 22, 2010 9:12:24 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Fighting piracy with a giant gavel didn't work before, and it's not going to work now.

Whee it ties up the courts and pisses off enough people who complain to their congressman that they were incorrectly sued it will force the gov to pass laws and restrictions and stick their noses into what and who is doing what on the internet,

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June 5, 2010 4:24:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting PoSmedley,

Fighting piracy with a giant gavel didn't work before, and it's not going to work now.


Whee it ties up the courts and pisses off enough people who complain to their congressman that they were incorrectly sued it will force the gov to pass laws and restrictions and stick their noses into what and who is doing what on the internet,

Quite right.

Off Topic: You know, Po, that Avatar is probably one of the coolest things I've ever seen LoL. I just recently became a fan of the show "House" (this is the last season I know) and I've always been a Trek fan. Mixing the two is just....mind boggling.

Awesome Photoshopping to who-ever did that. Was it you?

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June 5, 2010 11:52:31 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Awesome Photoshopping to who-ever did that. Was it you?

Yup.

Now if you'll excuse me, I just made Admiral and I need a new Poloran Assualt Rifle.

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June 6, 2010 1:48:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting PoSmedley,

Awesome Photoshopping to who-ever did that. Was it you?


Yup.

Now if you'll excuse me, I just made Admiral and I need a new Poloran Assualt Rifle.

lol Nice. I thought I've seen that pic around on the STO forums. You are talking about playing STO right? Or were you just kidding? lol

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June 6, 2010 10:32:57 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

You are talking about playing STO right? Or were you just kidding

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June 7, 2010 12:18:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting PoSmedley,

You are talking about playing STO right? Or were you just kidding




Reduced 66%

Original 566 x 658

Very Cool . I actually let my account run out and didn't continue, mostly because of money reasons atm, medical bills etc etc. One of my best friends how-ever bought a Lifetime Subscription and doesn't want it anymore. He's as big a Trekkie as I am, but he has two kids a wife and three pets to take care of on top of work. He said he'd come back to it in a year or two after there's been more content added. In the mean-time he gave me his account and pass and told me to "Play my character, make a new one for your-self, whatever you want, it's cool". So, next time I log-in you can expect a friend request

Note: I don't have any idea when that will be. Might be tonight or tomorrow, might be next week, might be two weeks from now. I've got three other games going I'm trying to work my way through right now and STO kinda fell down on my priority list.

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June 7, 2010 6:22:55 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think one of the guys from Hacklab.to said it best, if you can programmed it to run on a computer, it can be decompile and disassembled.  That translate to any kind of DRM arrangement will ultimately failed.  

 

and for all you curious fans here, apparently, reverse engineering is a legal affair, don't believe me, you can find commercial softwares to do it and books on amazon to tell you how it is done for your own personal educational edification of course.  SOO in a nutshell, bitch about all you want regarding torrents links, leechers and pirates, and even those who just crack copyright protection all you want, but it is not going to stop it.  People will pay for a product if they like it and if you put out a reasonable price for it, then they will buy more of it.

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June 7, 2010 9:04:24 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

apparently, reverse engineering is a legal affair,

Not if it is prohibited by the program's owner.

BTW...your 'educational' links promoting/abetting copyright abuse have been removed.

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June 7, 2010 9:07:25 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Just to add....discussing the morality/justification of piracy/copyright abuse/theft is one thing....facilitating it through education/link is another.

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June 7, 2010 10:06:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Reverse engineering of software is protected in the United States of America by the fair use exception in copyright law. See "The Law and Economics of Reverse Engineering", 111 Yale Law Journal 1575-1663 (May 2002) by Pamela Samuelson and Suzanne Scotchmer.

The Digital Millenium Copyright Act forbids the use of reverse engineering in order to circumvent copyright protection devices. But it harbors several exceptions in which it is still legal to reverse engineer the copyright protection device.

The first non-IBM implementation of the PC-BIOS is an example of legal reverse engineering which was done without the permission of the program's owner.

Anyone beleiving that it is illegal should never use an IBM PC-Compatible computer not manufactured by IBM in order to remain coherent with his opinion.

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June 7, 2010 10:29:01 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Does it really matter what a law is in whatever country, its a

Stardock/WC rule.  Thats all that counts.

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June 7, 2010 11:23:03 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Jafo, the links i posted were all legitimate links.  In no way was i advocating anyone breaking the laws for profit.   Reverse engineering is done on a constant basis by tech companies and users around the world.   

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June 7, 2010 11:25:17 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I can't wait until cloning is perfected and legal. It will be interesting to see how so many of the folks who think it's okay to pirate, reverse engineer, etc, etc, feel about it when it's their own DNA or the DNA of their children that someone wants to borrow, tweak, share, etc etc. And don't kid yourselves,...It will be as readily available as hair clippings, placenta, and all the other stuff you don't even consider or wonder if it's protected or should be. It's just a matter of someone wanting it bad enough. And someone always will. It's our nature to covet. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be piracy to begin with.

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June 7, 2010 11:31:49 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Jafo, the links i posted were all legitimate links. In no way was i advocating anyone breaking the laws for profit. Reverse engineering is done on a constant basis by tech companies and users around the world.

And thanks to that inane demand for 'free speech' it's apparently 'OK' to post instruction on how to make bombs for 'fun and profit'.

'legitimate links'.

The MOST common category of link on the Internet is ALSO legitimate.....PORN.

Doesn't necessarily make it desired - here....

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June 7, 2010 12:11:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

"And yes...I'm SURE there's legitimate [legal] users of Torrents too...however I am yet to see one in a Google search...."

 

Is it a legitimate use to redownload games which you have lost due to misplacing the CD or a broken computer?

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June 7, 2010 12:14:32 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting PoSmedley,
I can't wait until cloning is perfected and legal. It will be interesting to see how so many of the folks who think it's okay to pirate, reverse engineer, etc, etc, feel about it when it's their own DNA or the DNA of their children that someone wants to borrow, tweak, share, etc etc. And don't kid yourselves,...It will be as readily available as hair clippings, placenta, and all the other stuff you don't even consider or wonder if it's protected or should be. It's just a matter of someone wanting it bad enough. And someone always will. It's our nature to covet. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be piracy to begin with.

Most likely people who think it's ok to reverse engineer, like myself in cases allowed by law, will think it is not ok to make an unauthorized, and maybe even an authorized, clone out of oneself.

Don't you realize that hardware and software reverse engineering and artificial cloning are different fields with different consecuences?

There is nothing strange in thinking one should be legal and the other illegal.

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June 7, 2010 12:15:49 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Is it a legitimate use to redownload games which you have lost due to misplacing the CD or a broken computer?

No, it isn't....not unless the Game manufacturer/distributor sets inplace provisions for doing such.

As with ALL commercial products....you purchase it and you have it......if you subsequently no longer have it then you no longer have it.

Geez....that's profound.

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June 7, 2010 1:06:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting KainWeylin,
Is it a legitimate use to redownload games which you have lost due to misplacing the CD or a broken computer?

A more correct answer would be :

No, it isn't... not unless the game copyright holder or the aplicable law sets inplace provisions for doing such. As an example the DMCA has exceptions for archivists and librarians in certain circumstances.

As with ALL licensed products... you get a license agreement for it and you have a license agreement for it... if you subsequently no longer have the printed or digitally stored license agreement text or the related CD that does not invalidate the license agreement.

 

As for the particular case of downloading a torrent of something you have a license to use (while uploading nothing of it)... I don't think such a thing has being tested in trial. If anyone knows a case in which this particular situation went to trial I'd be interested. In my humble opinion no judge would ever rule in favour of the suitor since not even the usual ridiculous damage claims for copyright infringement would apply here and the user already has a license agreement allowing it to use the copyrighted work.

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June 7, 2010 2:16:21 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Quoting LuthienStarshine,

As for the particular case of downloading a torrent of something you have a license to use (while uploading nothing of it)... I don't think such a thing has being tested in trial. If anyone knows a case in which this particular situation went to trial I'd be interested. In my humble opinion no judge would ever rule in favour of the suitor since not even the usual ridiculous damage claims for copyright infringement would apply here and the user already has a license agreement allowing it to use the copyrighted work.

Well, but somebody *must* upload something, or you couldn't leech at all. And that's why I think a judge won't see this so one-sided. Further, even a legitimate license-key doesn't allow these person(s) to infringe copyrights and disseminate the result of it throughout the web.

just my 2 bcs...

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