Scratch Civ V off my buy list.

By on May 6, 2010 8:30:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Alstein

Join Date 07/2004
+54

http://store.steampowered.com/news/3792/

I wonder if this means Brad Wardell will stop working with Civ V.

I just can't support DRM, that while not TOO bad, helps enforce a near-monopoly.  This may be a blow to the other DD providers- as this is the biggest game to do this so far.

 

Hopefully EWOM is everything I want, because now I'm relying on it.

 

(Note: I do use Steam, I just won't support being forced to use it on non-Valve products)

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StarCruzr
Xanderful
May 6, 2010 6:24:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I guess I won't be buying Civ5 now. Steam sure is saving me a lot of money these days.

So how far along is this Impulse Reactor thing? I recently noticed that the devs of Monday Night Combat are considering a PC version. The availability of a good multiplayer matchmaking service looks to be a big deal for them, and I'm afraid they'll end up putting it on Steamworks if someone doesn't find a better alternative. I don't want to have to take yet another game off my already very short buy list.

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May 6, 2010 6:28:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Steam seems to be celebrating. Went over to the Steam Powered web site. Does not require Steam to view.

Civ IV Complete is $10 on their weekend deal. Really rubbing it in, aren't they?

Of course, you would be a fool to buy it. The Steam version of Civ IV leaves out things you might want later, including the editor I think. So it's really Civ IV Incomplete that they are offering for $10.

Installing mods on any of their games can turn into a rolling nightmare.

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May 6, 2010 6:40:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Funny, I've never bought a Steam game full price, always nearly 50% new games within a month of it's release, this always happens so the $$$ hogging you are talking about is nowhere to be seen by me. Valve doesn't control the prices of 3rd party companies, the companies do..

DRM will always be an issue, I believe the craziest being that of UBISOFT|EA. We all can make a huge debate about Wal-Mart since it's conception. It put all the smaller businesses in the area out because of it's prices. Steam has the power to do the same and is doing the same.. win/win in my book...

To all the people saying they won't play it, you'll be missing out on a potentially great game that I'll be wholeheartedly enjoying.

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May 6, 2010 6:59:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting wilebill,
The Steam version of Civ IV leaves out things you might want later, including the editor I think.

 

Spreading a little FUD, are we?  The "Editor" for Civ4 is your favorite text editor.  It uses xml files and python for nearly everything.  To make maps, use the WorldBuilder which is built into the game.

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May 6, 2010 8:54:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I can still play Fall From Heaven!  No news on steamworks there, um yet.

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May 6, 2010 9:24:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Well clearly I won't be modding or getting Civ V now.  

 

How is it any different to Elemental requiring Impulse to be installed and active to play?  Impulse/Steam install an invasive client.  Impulse/Steam is required to authenticate those two games.  Impulse/Steam have "exclusives" with those games.  Impulse/Steam are used as the DRM system.  Impulse/Steam force you to join their communities with all the good/bad that comes with that.  Impulse/Steam MUST be running in the background to receive patches and updates.

A little hypocritical in my opinion.  

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May 6, 2010 9:39:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting DeCypher00,
...The reason Impulse supports Ubisoft and not Steam is because Steam is Impulse's number one competitor. It has nothing to do with how good or bad the DRM is. Even Steam haters will agree that Steam is better than Ubisoft's DRM. But from a business standpoint, there's no reason not to support Ubisoft games. They're not an online distributor.

Here's the ugly truth: if Steam wasn't so successful, I'm sure Stardock would have no problem supporting Steamworks games, because, like you said, Stardock can't control what a publisher uses for their DRM. But they can choose not to sell it, because it leads buyers to a service that is currently better than Impulse for a lot of people. Not you. Probably not anyone in this forum. But for millions of people...

Actually, the reason that the Impulse Client doesn't support Steamworks DRM is because Steamworks DRM doesn't work with Impulse, it only works with the Steam Client and was designed this way.  Stardock made no decision in this, Valve constructed Steamworks in this way and as such any game that uses Steamworks DRM requries the Steam Client to be open and running regardless of its place of purchase.  If you were to buy Civilisation V via Impulse, when you double clicked on the game it would simply open the Steam Client.  This of course begs the question why even both using Impulse - it's an un-needed step.  You could simply just open the Steam Client yourself and bypass the Impulse step entirely.  The logical extension of this then is to simply ignore Impulse and buy the game via the Steam client yourself and save yourself some time.  This is why no other Digital Distribution Platform will host games using Steamworks DRM - it's sending your clients directly to Valve for their game. 

Here's an interesting one: has Steam offered support of Stardock's GOO DRM - which doesn't require the use of the Impulse Client - in anyway?  Why not?  Because Steam doesn't support other Digital Distribution platforms, their companies, their technologies or their games.  Period.  Stardock have already said they'd gladly host Steamwork enabled games if the DRM didn't require the installation and running of the Steam Client.  So why doesn't Steam do the same?  Based on the evidence at hand, and the inherint nature of the Steamworks DRM, it's because Valve doesn't want to support their competitors; in fact, they're actively working against them.  They want a monopoly on the market.

I refuse to allow Valve to establish itself as a monopoly where by if you game on the PC you have to go through them regardless of where and how you buy your games.  The number one reason people chose to continue to game on the PC is flexibility, customisation and personal control - to sum it up in one word; choice.  This issue isn't DRM, that's a seperate issue.  I don't give a shit about what Steamworks requires - and frankly I have no problem with a one-time activation - I give a shit about what it means for the industry as a whole, and about what it'll mean in the future.  What do I mean?  I own many titles on Steam, my personal favourites are Killing Floor and Torchlight, and I own two titles on Impulse - I'd own more if it's partners would actually sell their games to me and didn't restrict games based on regional pricing - which Stardock doesn't control.  If it's cheaper to buy a game on Impulse than it is in my local store, then the game is locked (EA are the biggest offenders).  On Steam, however, the game's price is inflated - AU$100.00 for the most recent 'The Sims' game, in stores it's AU$49.99.  If Steam kills off it's competition, I'd have no choice if I wanted to game but to pay.  This is why it's bad for the industry.

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May 6, 2010 9:40:32 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I thought you can install stardock games just fine if you buy the physical DVDs from the store without ever touching impulse?  At least I don't recall any online activation, if it does have online activation that would be lame because I always like to think "What if the internet goes away and never comes back" when I'm buying my games to make sure I don't loose access just because something silly like the internet goes away for good.

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May 6, 2010 9:52:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You can install their games fine without Impulse, you require Impulse to update them though.  However, you don't require Impulse to run the game, so the solution is simply to fire up Impulse when an Update comes out and let it automatically update your game, then close down Impulse and ignore it until the next update.  It's the way Digtial Distribution should be.

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May 6, 2010 10:05:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yea I do prefer the way impulse does things over other services like steam and D2D.  I still prefer to buy Physical media, but I guess if i absolutely had to always buy digital products, impulse would probably be the way to go.

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May 6, 2010 11:58:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

How is it any different to Elemental requiring Impulse to be installed and active to play?  Impulse/Steam install an invasive client.  Impulse/Steam is required to authenticate those two games.  Impulse/Steam have "exclusives" with those games.  Impulse/Steam are used as the DRM system.  Impulse/Steam force you to join their communities with all the good/bad that comes with that.  Impulse/Steam MUST be running in the background to receive patches and updates.

A little hypocritical in my opinion.

So you feel 2K Games is simply entitled to my dollars and my modding time then even though its success comes directly at the expense of what I work on? I'm sorry but are you insane?  

Previously, on the assumption that Civilization V was going to be a normal PC game release, its success would help all strategy games.  Now, its success basically helps solidify Steam's position. I certainly don't want that. So why should I help support that move?

Now, if you think that there being a single store (with no other viable options) to decide what is and isn't going to be available is a good thing then there's nothing to discuss.

Impulse exists because no one else bothered to come up with a credible alternative to Steam.  Without Impulse, the PC would certainly become a a closed platform where Valve gets to take 30%+ cut of every game that comes out because in the long-run, digital distribution is going to dominate.

I always assumed that every publisher would end up with their own e-store.  But if Steam (or anyone for that matter) takes over and the PC becomes effectively a closed platform, then why would anyone want to develop for it given the headaches of making a PC game? Might as well make iPhone games or Xbox games or whatever where at least the platform owner delivers a helluva lot of value.

If you want Valve to be the PC game platform owner, then more power to you. But I doubt most PC game developers feel that way.  I know I certainly don't.  My disappointment isn't with Valve or Steam. They make great products and Steam and Steamworks is a great system.  My disappointment is with Civilization.

 

 

 

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May 7, 2010 12:01:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Dale_,

Quoting Frogboy, reply 15Well clearly I won't be modding or getting Civ V now.  

 
How is it any different to Elemental requiring Impulse to be installed and active to play?  Impulse/Steam install an invasive client.  Impulse/Steam is required to authenticate those two games.  Impulse/Steam have "exclusives" with those games.  Impulse/Steam are used as the DRM system.  Impulse/Steam force you to join their communities with all the good/bad that comes with that.  Impulse/Steam MUST be running in the background to receive patches and updates.

A little hypocritical in my opinion.  

Well you are incorrect.  Impulse is only needed if you want to update the game with patches (assuming they aren't available stand alone).  It's certainly not needed to run or play the game.  Only run Impulse when you want to patch your game, ignore it the rest of the time, never have to run it.  Heck, you can uninstall Impulse and delete it from your computer if you want.  Guess what, Elemental or any other game will still run just fine.  Try to do that with Steam. 

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May 7, 2010 1:21:37 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

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May 7, 2010 1:46:10 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

How is it any different to Elemental requiring Impulse to be installed and active to play?  Impulse/Steam install an invasive client.  Impulse/Steam is required to authenticate those two games.  Impulse/Steam have "exclusives" with those games.  Impulse/Steam are used as the DRM system.  Impulse/Steam force you to join their communities with all the good/bad that comes with that.  Impulse/Steam MUST be running in the background to receive patches and updates.

A little hypocritical in my opinion.

So you feel 2K Games is simply entitled to my dollars and my modding time then even though its success comes directly at the expense of what I work on? I'm sorry but are you insane?  

Previously, on the assumption that Civilization V was going to be a normal PC game release, its success would help all strategy games.  Now, its success basically helps solidify Steam's position. I certainly don't want that. So why should I help support that move?

Now, if you think that there being a single store (with no other viable options) to decide what is and isn't going to be available is a good thing then there's nothing to discuss.

Impulse exists because no one else bothered to come up with a credible alternative to Steam.  Without Impulse, the PC would certainly become a a closed platform where Valve gets to take 30%+ cut of every game that comes out because in the long-run, digital distribution is going to dominate.

I always assumed that every publisher would end up with their own e-store.  But if Steam (or anyone for that matter) takes over and the PC becomes effectively a closed platform, then why would anyone want to develop for it given the headaches of making a PC game? Might as well make iPhone games or Xbox games or whatever where at least the platform owner delivers a helluva lot of value.

If you want Valve to be the PC game platform owner, then more power to you. But I doubt most PC game developers feel that way.  I know I certainly don't.  My disappointment isn't with Valve or Steam. They make great products and Steam and Steamworks is a great system.  My disappointment is with Civilization.
 

From a business perspective I completely understand you decision. I have a feeling he was trying to argue out the difference of Steam and Impulse.

Also I could be wrong but I think battle.net is becoming a digital distribution platform for Blizzard (and perhaps Activision?).

On a side note I probably won't be getting Civ V. I loved the concept of Civ IV but couldn't stand how it handled combat.

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May 7, 2010 2:01:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting bonscott,

Quoting Dale_, reply 81
Quoting Frogboy, reply 15Well clearly I won't be modding or getting Civ V now.  

 
How is it any different to Elemental requiring Impulse to be installed and active to play?  Impulse/Steam install an invasive client.  Impulse/Steam is required to authenticate those two games.  Impulse/Steam have "exclusives" with those games.  Impulse/Steam are used as the DRM system.  Impulse/Steam force you to join their communities with all the good/bad that comes with that.  Impulse/Steam MUST be running in the background to receive patches and updates.

A little hypocritical in my opinion.  

Well you are incorrect.  Impulse is only needed if you want to update the game with patches (assuming they aren't available stand alone).  It's certainly not needed to run or play the game.  Only run Impulse when you want to patch your game, ignore it the rest of the time, never have to run it.  Heck, you can uninstall Impulse and delete it from your computer if you want.  Guess what, Elemental or any other game will still run just fine.  Try to do that with Steam. 

It's been confirmed on Civ5's twitter feed that Steam is not required to be online to play Civ5.  

Heck, I have a LOT of Indie games through Steam (because I like to support the Indie scene) which don't even need Steam running.  Just run the exe directly from the steamapps folder.

Steam certainly isn't needed to run or play any of those games.  

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May 7, 2010 2:08:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It's been confirmed on Civ5's twitter feed that Steam is not required to be online to play Civ5.

That doesn't mean you can play Civ5 WITHOUT having the Steam client running

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May 7, 2010 2:26:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,



How is it any different to Elemental requiring Impulse to be installed and active to play?  Impulse/Steam install an invasive client.  Impulse/Steam is required to authenticate those two games.  Impulse/Steam have "exclusives" with those games.  Impulse/Steam are used as the DRM system.  Impulse/Steam force you to join their communities with all the good/bad that comes with that.  Impulse/Steam MUST be running in the background to receive patches and updates.

A little hypocritical in my opinion.


So you feel 2K Games is simply entitled to my dollars and my modding time then even though its success comes directly at the expense of what I work on? I'm sorry but are you insane?  

Previously, on the assumption that Civilization V was going to be a normal PC game release, its success would help all strategy games.  Now, its success basically helps solidify Steam's position. I certainly don't want that. So why should I help support that move?

Now, if you think that there being a single store (with no other viable options) to decide what is and isn't going to be available is a good thing then there's nothing to discuss.

Impulse exists because no one else bothered to come up with a credible alternative to Steam.  Without Impulse, the PC would certainly become a a closed platform where Valve gets to take 30%+ cut of every game that comes out because in the long-run, digital distribution is going to dominate.

I always assumed that every publisher would end up with their own e-store.  But if Steam (or anyone for that matter) takes over and the PC becomes effectively a closed platform, then why would anyone want to develop for it given the headaches of making a PC game? Might as well make iPhone games or Xbox games or whatever where at least the platform owner delivers a helluva lot of value.

If you want Valve to be the PC game platform owner, then more power to you. But I doubt most PC game developers feel that way.  I know I certainly don't.  My disappointment isn't with Valve or Steam. They make great products and Steam and Steamworks is a great system.  My disappointment is with Civilization.

 

 

 

I'm not arguing the perspective of 2K, Firaxis or Civilization as a series.  Your original comment implied you wouldn't participate with Civ5 due to the deal struck between Valve and 2K to use Steamworks.  From a purely business point of view I can totally understand that you would not want to favour Impules's direct competitor.  That I totally understand.

I was arguing the point that if you really are dropping Civ5 because of the inclusion Steamworks then that is a little hypocritical due to the requirement of Impulse for Elemental (as specified on the product page).  Like Civ5, Elemental will be available through brick 'n mortar, Amazon and other locations (I'm assuming) yet to participate in the community and receive patch updates, an Impulse account and installation will be required.  How is this different to Civ5?  It's NOT.

As mentioned in my previous post too, it's been confirmed that Steam doesn't need an active connection to run Civ5, it can be run totally offline and disconnected.  Same as Elemental.  Steam will publish community updates and patches to Civ5.  Same as Elemental.  Personally I don't understand (except from a purely business competitor perspective) how you can refuse Civ5 when you're doing the same thing with Elemental on Impulse.

I use Steam because of their catalog.  I also purchase a LOT of Indie games off Steam to help support Indie developers.  It's unfortunate that Impulse doesn't have the same depth and strength of options for me.  I also use Steam because 9 times out of 10 I can get the games for almost 50% of the price of brick 'n mortar.  I live in Australia where new releases cost me $100, whereas on Steam they are usually $50-60.

As a consumer I have these options.  As a developer using the same "locked-down" option to Impulse DRM with Stardock games as 2K has done with Civ5 to Steam, I'm sure you can understand why I believe it's a little hypocritical to accuse 2K of selling out when you do the same thing.  

Sorry, just my opinion.  

 

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May 7, 2010 2:34:12 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

@ Frogboy

Now time to get the rights,and continue the MoO franchise.And don't forget about the sequel of Alpha Centauri.

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May 7, 2010 2:36:36 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Or better yet, make your own stone-age-to-space-age TBS.  Global Civilizations!

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May 7, 2010 2:42:56 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Sorry but that's not true. I've seen people on forums claim that Steam was doing weekend deals before Impulse (they don't provide evidence, they just insist that's the case despite archive.org making it pretty obvious that weekend deals didn't show up until AFTER Impulse came out).

Steam didn't start doing 75% off deals until AFTER Impulse did the 75% discount on Space Rangers 2 on Impulse.

I'm sorry Brad, but you are wrong on this one. On March 6th 2008, Steam sold Two Worlds 75% off. On March 28th 2008 Prey was discounted 75%. In May 2008 Shadowgrounds: Survivor was 75% off. Source: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=720271

According to Wikipedia, Impulse has been released on June 17th 2008. So the numbers just don't add up. If i'm wrong, please tell me how

 

If you take Steamworks to its logical conclusion, then in 5 years, the PC platform will be closed.

In an recent interview you said publishers actually dislike Steamworks and, according to you, tell their developers to not use it anymore. Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/acting-on-impulse-interview

Now you are worrying about Steam becoming a closed standard on PC. What has changed in the last two weeks? If your statement in the GI.biz interview was true, there is nothing to worry about, isn't it?

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May 7, 2010 3:05:18 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting bonscott,


A little hypocritical in my opinion.  


Well you are incorrect.  Impulse is only needed if you want to update the game with patches (assuming they aren't available stand alone).  It's certainly not needed to run or play the game.  Only run Impulse when you want to patch your game, ignore it the rest of the time, never have to run it.  Heck, you can uninstall Impulse and delete it from your computer if you want.  Guess what, Elemental or any other game will still run just fine.  Try to do that with Steam. 

I think this just marketing crap. Show me a PC game, and I will show you a game that NEEDS a patch. Until the publishers/developers actually release games that function properly out of the box, requiring Impulse to update the game is just as invasive as Steam. I can show you thousands of games that were pretty much complete garbage without their first patch, including a Stardock title.

Having said that, it's realy unfortunate that Valve keeps grabbing exclusives like this. It narrows the playing field, and a narrow playing field is bad for gamers. I've used Steam as a bargain sale store, to pick up titles I've passed over before and to pick up Valve's titles. I really don't want to feel forced to use their store. I don't take kindly to companies forcing me to do anything, and unlike with Impulse, when the steam servers take a nose dive, access to your games go with it. Since Impulse isnt' required to run to play (after the forced use for updates of course) at least you don't have to worry about that.

Oh wells, won't be the first of long running series I pass on.

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May 7, 2010 3:17:01 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Dale_,
... Like Civ 5, Elemental will be available through brick 'n mortar, Amazon and other locations (I'm assuming) yet to participate in the community and receive patch updates, an Impulse account and installation will be required. How is this different to Civ5? It's NOT...

Actually, it's quite different.  Stardock is using it's own service, Impulse Reactor, and is intertwining Elemental and Impulse and Impulse Reactor together at their descretion.  Now, let's say you make a game and want to use Impulse Reactor as well to gain access to all the features.  You can, for free, and you can then host it on any other Digitial Distribution platform you want, including Steam, without requiring Impulse or an Impulse Account.  People who buy the game via Impulse can have it updated via Impulse and people who buy the game over Steam can update the game over Steam without needing Impulse.  It doesn't force anyone to do anything.  Now, let's say you want to use Steamworks instead.  You can, provided Valve get a slice of your profits and your game is locked to Steam.  If you buy it over Impulse, they need to download and install Steam and get a Steam Account and then download the game through Steam before they can even run their game.
A company intertwining their own games with their own services makes sense.  I'd have a lot less faith in Impulse, for example, if their own Development company weren't using it's feature set.  A company forcing everyone else in the industry to use their service makes sense for that company, though not for anyone else, including the customer.

Quoting Dale_,
...I live in Australia where new releases cost me $100, whereas on Steam they are usually $50-60...

I also live in Australia, and the highest profile titles on Steam are currently running around US$69-79.00 mark, which on a good day with exchange rates, equates to around AU$80-95.00.  However, the retail stores have, for example, Modern Warfare 2 for AU$49.95 (K-Mart, I believe).  Even at the so-called massive sales on Steam, where you'll see 25-50% knocked off a title, the prices are inflated considering the cost of physically producing the box, discs, manual, shipping, placement, etc.


Quoting Guest83,
I'm sorry Brad, but you are wrong on this one. On March 6th 2008, Steam sold Two Worlds 75% off. On March 28th 2008 Prey was discounted 75%. In May 2008 Shadowgrounds: Survivor was 75% off. Source: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=720271

According to Wikipedia, Impulse has been released on June 17th 2008. So the numbers just don't add up. If i'm wrong, please tell me how

Let me see if I understand you.  Brad Wardell, CEO of Stardock and owner of Impulse, provided incorrect information on his own product and company?  The third part site, Archive.org, is also wrong? Do you re-read your posts before you click 'Post'?

Quoting Guest83,
In an recent interview you said publishers actually dislike Steamworks and, according to you, tell their developers to not use it anymore. Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/acting-on-impulse-interview
Now you are worrying about Steam becoming a closed standard on PC. What has changed in the last two weeks? If your statement in the GI.biz interview was true, there is nothing to worry about, isn't it?

I don't understand the point of this? 
Brad advised that his contacts don't like Steamworks.  Brad then advised that in a hypothetical situation where Steamworks is allowed to continue unabaided ("it's logical conclusion") which it won't do due to services like Impulse Reactor being made available soon (hence the situation being hypothetical and thus the useage of the term "its logical conclusion"), that Steam would create a console-style environment where the platform as a whole passes through the company which owns the platform which in this hypothetical situation would be Valve due to the locked in nature of the Steamworks DRM, thus creating his point.
What's your point?

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May 7, 2010 3:54:17 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting arstal,



Quoting Haree78,
reply 19
Is a Developer who says "no, only our shop can sell our game" any different?


 

First-party can do that all they like.   They're not doing it to lock others out of the market.

 

 

 

What hypocracy in this thread.

Sony and Microsoft have been doing this to each other with their consoles for a long time, it's competition, Stardock need to step up.  If they aren't catering to Developers/Publishers as well as Valve then they need to improve.

 

Quoting Frogboy,

But if Steam (or anyone for that matter) takes over and the PC becomes effectively a closed platform, then why would anyone want to develop for it given the headaches of making a PC game? Might as well make iPhone games or Xbox games or whatever where at least the platform owner delivers a helluva lot of value.

 

What?  Steam takes away a lot of the headaches of PC game development, as you well know.  That's exactly what Steamworks is, and Steam itself.  It's a form of DRM (hear the crowds gasp) that most seem to accept so win for the Developer win for the consumer (Can I expect cheaper games because they sell more?).  Plus it gives them great multiplayer functionality that would take tons of money to produce so more money spent on game development or cheaper games.

With options such as Steam and competitors bringing development more in line with consoles why wouldn't people want to develop for PC?

I understand from a business perspective your position, you don't want to support the competitor, but don't dress this up as Steam being evil or bad for PC gamers, they are just selling themselves better than you and it's something you need to address.

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May 7, 2010 4:05:55 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting bonscott,


Well you are incorrect.  Impulse is only needed if you want to update the game with patches (assuming they aren't available stand alone).  It's certainly not needed to run or play the game.  Only run Impulse when you want to patch your game, ignore it the rest of the time, never have to run it.  Heck, you can uninstall Impulse and delete it from your computer if you want.  Guess what, Elemental or any other game will still run just fine.  Try to do that with Steam. 

 

I keep hearing this argument.  So, you're big gripe with Steam is that is has to be running, but you don't mind Impulse because the ONLY difference is that Steam has to be running.  Other people don't mind that, but they refuse to do it because they can't be bothered to set Steam to offline mode.  This is the stupidest thing ever.  Sure it's your choice, but it doesn't mean your rationale is in any way intelligent.  

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May 7, 2010 4:07:04 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

In my country ( Hungary ) lots of games are cheaper in retail,than on Steam.

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