Rough sketch of the races of Men

By on April 8, 2010 12:56:32 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Draginol

Join Date 03/2001
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This likely won’t make the final cut into the game because it’s too much for new users. But for those of you interested in the lore of Elemental and how races, factions, and allegiances work under the covers:

image

In beta 1Z and beyond there will only be three included races: Men, Trogs and Urxen.

But for those of you in the current beta, we have it sub-divided out much further.

The race of men long ago were split into two parts – west and east.

The west fought the Titans and lived on the fringes of civilization due constant wars with the much more powerful Titans and their allies. The east served the Titans until Amarian (the Emperor) rose up with the might of his empire in the east and allied himself with the Elas’nir in the final battle. After the cataclysm, the remnants of his empire fled to the west to escape from the wrath of the Fallen and the Krax (men who remained loyal to the Titans).

Amarian’s people aren’t a race per se, they’re really just a collection of people from the east and hence aren’t particularly distinct.

On the east, there are two distinct races.  The Mancers and the Ironeers.   The Mancers are by far the most common with Altar, Capitar and Tarth (once part of Capitar) of that race. In later days, Altar becomes a predominantly Amarian but that story is for a different day.

But like I said, in the actual game, we are going to treat races as species and have just men, Trogs (Fallen), and Urxen (Fallen).

There are other races in the game (Dragons, Trolls, Sions, Darklings, etc.) but they aren’t social or numerous enough to make a playable race.

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April 8, 2010 1:42:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

So are there any difference between the Mancers and Ironeers besides for their names?

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April 8, 2010 2:09:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I can see how a new player might find the numerous types of Man to be daunting at first, but honestly when laid out in a tree like that it seems very straightforward.   Cool to see that this is how it's broken down in the lore.

 

I second Darkodinplus's question.

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April 8, 2010 4:51:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I honestly don't see why it couldn't make the cut into the final version. Don't dumb down your vision because some people might be too stupid to see the same thing you do. Complexity and Diversity are good things. Also you could just add that picture of the Racial Tree in the manual and everyone would understand

Also, Darkodinplus has a good question there.

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April 8, 2010 5:21:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, Elemental will have an Elemental-Pedia right? Just have a lore section there, with Man, and races of men, and then go into the lore about the various races then.

You don't have to go into too much detail during the actual game (or even mention races at all during actual game, just the story part of it), instead it can go in the Lore section of the Pedia.

In any case, it can definitely be in the game, it just doesn't have to be "front and center" where all players will see it all the time. It could be a tad out of the way for players to find it if they know where to look.

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April 8, 2010 5:36:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Suppose the casual player chooses a premade faction and such, he doesn't need to know about the races. They just need to be under the surface. But when a player wishes to make his own faction, then they can fiddle with the race as well, with the customization generator thingie.

I would love there to be more customization, especially regarding races. It would certainly make the game more fun.

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April 8, 2010 6:09:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

True. Slight intricacies in choosing Macro Race, sub-race (possibly splinter sub-race as well) ... All under the Species of either Man or Fallen.

In this case we have three Species ... Man, Trog, and Urxen.

Man has Macro Races of Mancers, Ironeers, and Eastern Men

Eastern Men has two subraces, the diverse Amaranians, and the Krax

Mancers have Altar and Capitar subraces (with Altar apparantly cross-breeding with Amaranians??), as well as a splinter sub-race of Tarth.

 

So during Faction customization ... really deciding Species and Macro-Race will always have particular hard-coded benefits, and then its the Sub-Race that your actually picking the Stats/Traits for. (The Sub-Race that you rule over).

 

In any case, with regard to excess lore ... there is no such thing as excess lore. If, during the game, something is briefly mentioned, it should have a link to click on which would bring up its FULL LORE page within the confines of the ElePedia.

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April 8, 2010 6:16:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Why the decision to drop Wraiths and Magnars?

Though I suppose that since the humans aren't too different, it'd be strange if the Fallen were.

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April 8, 2010 6:25:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Tiavals,
Why the decision to drop Wraiths and Magnars?

Though I suppose that since the humans aren't too different, it'd be strange if the Fallen were.

It's true you don't see them on the Tree, but you also don't see a few other "Fallen Races" on the Tree. I hope those Races aren't being taken out. I perticularly liked both the Magnar and the Wraith.

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April 8, 2010 6:36:09 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I personally hope Magnars are kept, I never fully understood Wraiths, and for all I know Wraiths are an alternate sub-race of Trogs or Urxen.

I would kind of hope that Magnars are kept separate and distinct however.

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April 8, 2010 6:44:11 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Raven X,
I honestly don't see why it couldn't make the cut into the final version. Don't dumb down your vision because some people might be too stupid to see the same thing you do. Complexity and Diversity are good things. Also you could just add that picture of the Racial Tree in the manual and everyone would understand

Yeah, what he said!

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April 8, 2010 6:50:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hiergamenon. That's the name of ElementalPedia

And I second the fact that there is never too much lore. (even if some names are just unpronounceable)

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April 8, 2010 6:53:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like Tiavals suggestion.  Make it a choice.  Frogboy and others have said it a million times.  Choice is good.

At the very least, I'd like to see it as a moddable thing in the retail release of the game.  If you won't implement it into the normal game, functionality to change and/or create races/sub-races/species/etc., would be a really cool feature methinks.

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April 8, 2010 7:51:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Who buys a dumbed-down strategy game? Please do not take parts out just because 'new users' are not given enough credit to figure things out. Strategy should be complex (to a degree). I've been waiting for well over a dozen years for a worthwhile successor to Master of Magic, and it really pains me to see a potentially great game being stripped to appeal to a possibly larger audience. One of the best things about MoM was the variety of races to choose from. It increases the replay value, and adds more diversity to the world. That being said, I admit I don't know everything about the game currently. I'm not in the BETA (due to being a Mac user). Just my two cents.

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April 8, 2010 8:14:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

names are just unpronounceable

Agreed.

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April 8, 2010 8:38:55 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The amount you said men makes this thread very gay (which is not nessesarily a bad thing).

Anyway

Mancers? Mincers.

Ironeers? Metal heads.

Altar? Cultists.

Capitar? Capacitors. (techys)

Tarth? Tarts. (You already did this one yourself)

Gilden? Dutch Raiding Giuld. (party time in ou gilden ya!)

Amarians? Rastfarians. Ya mon tay be taken it slow but we get em always you sight? Ieire.

Kraxis? HEIN HIN! VOL! HAIL HILTER! (Krout Axis)

 

Just having some fun! I like the (non elf and gnome and dwarf - yay) lore, even though I don't love the names (apart from Iron Ears, which is utterly hilarious).

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April 8, 2010 9:19:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Why the decision to drop Wraiths and Magnars?

The post is about the races of Men, and has nothing to do with the Fallen.  Wraiths and Magnars are factions of Fallen, and will presumably be comprised of Fallen races (either Trogs or Urxen).

 

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April 8, 2010 9:38:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums
Id like more race's for the Kingdoms I mean the Empire has 2 race's thats discrimination towards the Kingdom and all those other Kingdoms Mancers,Ironeers(I agree with Aractain its a funny name),Altar,Capitar,Tarth,Gilden and Amarians this is just teams of the Human race hell warcraft 3 has more races(Humans,Night Elfs,Undead,Orcs) at least add Elfs to the Kingdoms some variety for making a custom race I mean "Hmm which race shall i choose Human or Human so many choices so little time" at least add more races for the customization you dont have to make more teams.
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April 8, 2010 9:58:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm in the add more races camp also - With distinct differences between them. There should be at a minimum be 6 distinct races (even if there is just minor differences like some of them being "sub-races") with 10 total civilizations. Ideally there should be 8 based on the chart above.

While the game will still be somewhat fun with just 3 races, it will be significantly less so than it could be. Granted this will require more time being spent on art assets, and developing differences.....but in my opinion it's worth it.

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April 8, 2010 10:13:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would like to see more races too. I prefer the usual elves, dwarves, orcs and dark elves.

It will require not only more work on art, but also a lot more work on balancing. I wonder if this is this the reason for not adding more races.

 

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April 8, 2010 10:28:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm pretty sure Elves (and all their variations,) Dwarves, Gnomes, and the stereotypical Fantasy Setting Races are something they're trying to avoid.  Elves don't seem like they'd fit in E:WoM either, at least not to me.

Kingdoms, Sub-races and the like are the best way to go IMO.  Whole new races as playable would still have to fit within the games lore, and considering the world of Elemental is supposed to be relatively desloate, I don't see there being that many.

Personally, I'd say 5, tops.  On the other hand, as the game proceeds and is further developed, I may change my mind...

But hey, Civilization only ever had one race...  At least we're getting three (at present,) so there's that at least.

And if you're argument to me mentioning Civ is, "Yeah, but each Civ had flavor," then don't bother.  They're all human, the special units didn't add that much flavor, and the Civ Specific Bonuses didn't really matter unless you sucked at the game like I do or played on a very high difficulty.

Speaking of, Civilizations should fall into one of three categories IMO.  Human, Fallen, and Dead.  (Read: Non-existant.  This isn't Civilization.)  If you -did- add any, it would have to be Titans methinks, and only that.  Just my opinion though.

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April 8, 2010 10:50:13 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I expect that multiple other races will be modded in very quickly.

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April 8, 2010 11:14:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting cleflar,
I expect that multiple other races will be modded in very quickly.

Very quickly? Someone will have to make 3D models for these races as well....

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April 8, 2010 11:18:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Tarth and Capitar being similar is fine for me. Capitar can be the Diplomatic Beuracrats of the Mainland (including crusades), and Tarth can be the rebel pirates and archers ... similar to renegade banditry and the wilds.

The Altar/ Amarian is kind of confusing so I won't touch it at the moment,

and Gildar being their own race is good as well.

Thats 3 races so far ... although adding in Krax its at least 4 main races.

Then for the Fallen, Trogs and Urxen are fine, although I thought Magnar was a really cool idea, and it would be nice if Magnar remained. Wraith would be fine as a faction, although I guess they can just use another race .... a split from their former race in that they specialize in Stealth and the Shadows. Probably a form of Air magic ... used to pollute the air with dust and poisons. (might need an earth shard/ some earth spells).

So thats 3 main races for the fallen as well.

Subraces can increase the number if needed, although these main 6 races (mancer, Ironeer, Krax) (Trog, Urxen, Magnar) would be fun to have (as variety in Art assets and Base skills). Sure maybe the division is based more on lore than game mechanics ... but if Magnar are going to be "dark elves" then I would highly prefer that they have a unique race (similar to how Gildar are a unique race).

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April 8, 2010 11:22:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

So, no beta 1.z today? Everytime the fiction appears on the release day, the release is postponed.

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April 8, 2010 11:35:00 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It went up at 1AM...  So probably before Draginol even went to bed for the night...  So for him it was still yesterday...  Kind of like me right now, having not slept yet.  =P

Edit: The Original Post I mean, not the build.  >.<

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