Demon studies

By on February 8, 2010 6:46:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Dr Franknfu...

Join Date 08/2005
+22

Wall of text... eventually about demons:

I was just playing x-com apocalypse, one of my favourite old games. Still great: tactical combat, turn based or real time, variable sized overland map, an economy of sorts, diplomacy, rival factions, multiple maps, rpg-like exp gain, research, manufacture and base building...etc

One thing that struck me, I really like researching toxic weapons, how you have to learn about each alien first before you're able to develop a weapon against them. It's not required, but once you capture an alien queen you get a mega weapon of alien gas grenades. Something for when you're just about to win anyway, perhaps there could have been alien gas grades A, B and C to get more fun out of it... but that doesn't matter here... back to elemental. Ok, so no aliens in elemental (or grenades? holy handgrenades maybe?)... but there are demons, monsters and odd creatures. How about if each defeated monster is able to provide a corpse for magical study? capturing a live demon allows you to study it... you'd have to get it weak enough to capture first... then bind it with spells. It would allow you to grow more powerful incrementally in demonic arts... capture a giant spider, wandering troll, demon bat... then unlock some demon summoning spells for the evil sov or demon banishing spells for those that way inclined... Perhaps it could be a choice, like the evil/neutral/good choices in GalCiv. Attacking a monster with an army, weakening, binding it and then drawing in a tactical battle (obviously not killing it or losing outright) could trigger an event, the results of which unlock a research option and they in turn unlock spell options.

What I would like to make it a little different, rather than simply researching for 10 turns and being able to summon demons, to advance up the magical path would take lots of little demon encounters. In x-com this was done by having to sample one of each alien, aliens with linked life-cycles opened up research after all were studied. That's one option, but it relies on meeting all the monsters easily.
So instead, if you get an infocard for each monster you capture, capture more and each gives a % chance to unlock higher tier research. Otherwise you slowly learn more about the creature (the infocard adds information) and you just have a small chance of getting something useful out of it the more you invest into it.
Capture a spider, then designate an alchemists lab to it and you'll be more likely to gain "spider venom" for your weapons, designate a wizards tower and you're more likely to get "spider summoning" as a spell or "arachnids weakness" a racial bonus when fighting spiders. Either way you'll open up core demon summoning techs with any captured monster, each tier could require or be boosted by another number of creatures. Perhaps groups of monsters could unlock something interesting, rather than being too useful on their own. I used the infocard as a tool because you could easily have the infocard with the description obscured with mystic runes on the bottom to indicate that there's more to be gained, but the choice of what that is would be determined by your actions, blank for nothing to learn... something faint and almost hidden to show that it is still requiring more prerequisites

 

Still, what I picture as an option would be for you to have something like "Demon studies" - gives a demon binding spell, use the spell on a roving creature and bring it back to a city. opens up "Demonic existence" and perhaps eventually a single summoning spell "Demonic summoning". Assign a building to study your captured creatures and become a really interesting race of spider riding, venom spear wielding demonologists. Or perhaps you encounter more... lets say hellhounds... eventually with research summon fire elementals and get a boost to fire spells and attacks, or fire resistance. Encounter fairy troops in your area? If you're good perhaps the wording of the events could be different for good monsters... "You encountered a small group of delicate but powerful fairies, rather than harming them you bound them with magic." "You can: release them, kill them or take them back to your city in the hopes of learning to communicate with them and to learn their ways" The roles are reversed, but it's otherwise the same, someone playing in character wouldn't have an evil army of fairy troops... it wouldn't fit, they'd have to kill them, revive them and study the power of an undead fairy.

Just thoughts... I think some things are quite arbitrary... when they don't have to be, how would you learn about how to summon demons except by studies of demons? How would you improve your fire spells? study a fire elemental or just set fire to things, which would you imagine is quicker?

The same thoughts could be applied to necromancy... after unlocking it, perhaps you would have to kill a significant number of troops to really understand the magics of reanimating corpses of your enemies. Or sacrifice your own troops to understand raising the dead of your own race (to allow you to remain quiet and still grow your skeletal army)

Obviously all these things could be modded into the game in a superficial way... have an event trigger, pick a bonus afterwards. Use the event as a prerequisite for research... maybe generate a unit with no attack or visual range as a 'captured unit'... but it wouldn't have the pretty infocard bit or have been discussed and taken apart as well as is possible in the forums or by being in the main game. So... what's wrong with the idea? Limited by local monsters? could run out of monsters to find? could abuse a spawning point? would require too much micro? annoying?

-I'm not a good judge, I like playing x-com on hard and raiding for lots of ammo, having rocket launchers on day 1... or rather fighting against rocket launchers on day 1... and stunning poppers for a live exploding monster sample... psionic controlling anyone I can just for the fun of making them arm lots of grenades and drop or throw them around... and throw their weapons to you as well. (in elemental) If I could kill a dragon with 1000 troops or capture it with 50000, I'd capture it every single time. If I had to capture a live zombie... erm... a fully functional and highly bitey zombie... for research... I'd send wave after wave of people in to bring at least one back. Then find out how to control them in a useful way... or even to find out that they can never be controlled... equally interesting to me.

Perhaps an intersting thought could be that perhaps you could become stronger than the forces that were able to make these things in the first place. Maybe you could create a new race, with enough research... like the fallen were once men... perhaps you could make something that is greater than any fallen or better than any human. (either as a cosmetic change plus large combat bonus or, as in Fall from heaven, creating a new little village and switching control to this new race)

Lots of thoughts...

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February 8, 2010 7:01:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sounds like an intresting idea. Would be nice for lots of things, but on the other hand, i don't want to have to capture a sample of everything i tech.

Perhaps it could be applied to special tech. Summoning your basic fairy is a tech even the slower channelers can manage without too much effort, but in order to summon high level fairys or upgrade your basic fairys you need to experiment on/chat with/have special UN commities to study/capture. Basic tech is left alone but special research topics determined by what you can lay hands on during the game.

IIRC, the devs mentioned something about tech trees being variable, this would be a fun way to do it.

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February 8, 2010 7:12:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think that capturing some kind of mosnters to unlock "secret" techs would be nice. For the rest, at best give bonuses to already known techs.

Spoiler about Monty Python and the Holy Grail below:

 

 

 

 

 

They had the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch!!!! 

 

 

 

 

End Spoiler

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February 8, 2010 9:23:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't think demons are planned in Elemental.  That said, your research idea is great, right down to the unreadable mystic runes on the info card.  It gives the player an additional connection / gameplay option for all of the otherwise random wandering monsters - awesome.  

Since there are no demons, instead of summoning it would be corrupting / modifying existing natural creatures (which is how they were made, based on previous comments).  I'm not suggesting you have to find the natural creatures, mind you - I'm sure you can find cattle and spiders lying around.  On the other hand, changing people could get kind of hairy if you're not playing as Fallen... as in 'hey, whatever happened to Uncle Bob?'

If some of the atmosphere that X-Com dripped with could be captured in the process / info cards / 'Elementalpedia', then this would be a huge win. Just one thing - if this does get in, it needs to be an actual deliberate activity; a randomized popup message choice is throw-away / low impact compared to what it could be.

Just my $.02

 

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February 8, 2010 10:14:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Your idea of the whole unreadable cards and having to research findings is excellent. A bit like the rogue-likes, each game the titanium rod is something different, and you have to find out what.

 

Perhaps channelers only could research items, thus the player has to decide what to do with their limited channelers, go out and do stuff or sit at home researching useful items?

 

I'm not keen on demons though.

 

 

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February 8, 2010 10:30:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The thing that interests me the most is the thought of capturing and holding creatures to research bonuses against them. It seems very realistic, and an awesome (and by awesome I mean highly unfortunate) event would be an escaped creature. For a spider it wouldn't be a big deal. But imagine if your Archdemon just escapes. Bad news.

Also, this idea (the OP) allows for more cultural flavor for each faction. If you live near a dark forest swarming with spiders, your faction will eventually become excellent at fighting spiders. If you live near a portal to hell (and you somehow survive), you will become beastly at killing/banishing/whatevering demons. You get the idea.

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February 9, 2010 1:59:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ahhh, that brings back memories. Sitting at the computer for night after night with a pad of paper, slowly flipping through the spellbook in master of magic, translating all those runes to see what was in my spellbook. Those were the days.

And considering the fact that the devs avoided using any standard fantasy critters, didn't even use the term 'races', and have multiple factions of human, i am pretty sure they are not gonna start tossing in standard demons. That would be like going to a 5 star resturant, ordering a meal with a french name of over 10 words, all multi-syllabic, getting a 200 dollar wine to go with it, and then smothering it in ketchup. The only one who can pull that level of bullshit has red fur, 2 tails and hangs out with a blue hedgehog.

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February 9, 2010 7:33:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't *think* the devs have written anything off in elemental. Personally I think a lot of this can be resolved to your choice of words. If there are giant spiders. In real life with magical spiders (otherwise impossible due to the rate limiting factors to size in invertebrates being limb joint resource allocation at atmospheric oxygen concentrations) They may be called demons by some, magical, or simply strange and interesting mutants. In elemental they would be a non-sentient race... which is allowed... they could be a mutated non-sentient race... also allowed. Demons could simply be mutated and magically manipulated members of already existing plants and animals. The point is they would be special, however you word it.

If you could study those special things, I would like an x-com style fact sheet about each one. But to make it interesting having the extra facts that you find out based on what it is you're looking for sounds interesting to me. It would lend to increased replayability if upon finding a... unique (and giant toxic) slug that, last time playing, you killed and had the infocard read:
"Sid the slud, gaint monster."
This time you could learn more about it's slime for paralysing weapons (alchemists):
"exudes a thick mucous that seems to paralyse some, send others into a deep stupor and even strangely, but completely useless for our research into the fine art of killing things... heal those with missing limbs...". (able to enchant powerful paralysis on weapons)
Or, learn more about it's size and what magic created it (wizards tower):
"created by one of the first titans, perhaps a failed attempt to create a giant spider or something more threatening..." perhaps resulting in a size boost and therefore generic HP/attack bonus to your summoned creatures... or a fast track to higher summoning spells, since those would I expect be larger things.
The point is it doesn't have to be major or complicated or walls of detailed information to be fun.

 

Basic tech is left alone but special research topics determined by what you can lay hands on during the game.

I think that it's always good to have core techs, applies equally to summoning. But from Sword of the stars, it's also nice if half the techs are core, or less. So you'd expect to have say 3/9 summons available for research... always a basic lv one spell so you're not penalised at the start but simply can't rely on one strategy. If most of the time you'd be randomly given 3 from 6 to research, you'd have half the available always, but if another 3 could be unlocked through user actions it would feel less random for your final state. Also if you were given a fairy spell, were also given higher tier fairy spells from the random generator, you'd be encouraged to seek out wild fairy troops to boost your own spells. Or if you're assaulted by fairy troops, you'd be on the lookout for a natural fairy pop to experiment on/understand better, even if you weren't given a single fairy summoning spell by the sadorandom generator.

Also, this idea (the OP) allows for more cultural flavor for each faction. If you live near a dark forest swarming with spiders, your faction will eventually become excellent at fighting spiders. If you live near a portal to hell (and you somehow survive), you will become beastly at killing/banishing/whatevering demons. You get the idea.

I like anything that gives you both an important and meaningful choice and flavour. In this case, it's a simple choice, but which you make should change based on both your situation and the character you're playing as. If you're evil, learning how to summon demons would make sense if you're fighting a good army. But if you're fighting against more monsters of the fallen, you'd want banishing spells and wards... but you'd be using them offensively. Perhaps even within one "banishing" research option could be good and evil options: Ward your cities to prevent entry/ward armour to increase your defence (good/neutral) or Ward your armour to do damage over time to creatures within range, protecting your archers and making your hero quite lethal. Picture Golgoth walking through the advancing enemy zombie horde, ripples of banishing magic flailing and even disintegrating any wandering too close... sounds cool to me, not as pathetic as a "lesser demon ward +3 defence against demons" sounds. It would certainly add flavour, Golgoth, so powerful that he can twist life enough to destroy the evil he helped to create.

I initially wrote that using the words Sauron and orc... but it would apply just as well to any monster and hero... It's be strange and funny for:
"Galadriel, the beautiful but terrible elven bearer of the one ring. Upon understanding of dark powers she wielded she strode among mortals, not invisible but bright and beautiful. Larger and greater than any wish for life or earthly desire. Her mere presence was enough to cause unyielding loyalty in any with a perchant for aesthetic perfection. And her wrath enough to petrify the gazer"
-finding the one ring, it's infocard says it has magical power, greater study reveals it's dark and terrible... and can only be used for war. What would it do to Galadriel? against humans... turncoat/petrify... against orcs... different research path, causes rage, causes them to attack the nearest creature because they're too beautiful...perhaps not much, to be used as a weapon you have to go the whole hog and make Galadriel evil.
(general point of that, perhaps items could also be worked into this, have an infocard, if you identify items with an alchemists looking for something they're more likely to find it then something else. Picture someone looking for something that cuts better vs an alchemist identifying items based on how heavy they are, what they'd end up showing you as the sov. out of the 100 items they threw away. So if the item properties aren't defined completely, unique items could have different traits if used by different races, picking from a list of what it could be. Some being set in stone (core) traits.


The last thing I want (not the last thing to discuss, more the least attractive prospect) is to *have* to capture every creature you see, or even be able to do so. I would like them all to have variable infocards and 'pedia entries. Perhaps only the major uniques should be able to be captured (say mother spider has 90% chance of a capturable effect, tiny baby spider has 10%, adult spider has 25%... if you're lucky or research one of them alot, perhaps you could get a bonus from all 3, but most often you'd only get a bonus if you found a giant mother spider and the others would just be mobs to you) and you could even know simply after seeing them if they have runes on their infocard indicating that it would be worth the effort. I'd still like a little unknown, perhaps if all those with a % chance get a smaller rerolled chance to have an effect with certain techs... say a late game "greater understanding" tech could allow all those wandering spiders to suddenly become interesting again... Just a thought. Maybe you'd then want to have another peek at that sword that didn't seem to do much but looked really pretty.

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February 9, 2010 7:48:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Great idea, clarified and elaborated. I can't think of anything to add off hand.

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February 10, 2010 9:19:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I already said long time ago that Fallen were bioware. Er... Bioweapons. If it happened once, why not again?

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February 23, 2010 2:39:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

So I am going to mod this game up with some pretty great, and accurately named and depicted demons. I imagine I can build a whole tech tree or some such thing to facilitate such an idea.

The great thing about this game is that if the devs dont build it, you can!

 

 

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February 23, 2010 2:52:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

like the idea of basic tech is "free" and research only, but special techs need other requirements too (encountered creature/completed quest/mined mineral,...)

 

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February 23, 2010 5:15:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Ratya48,
The thing that interests me the most is the thought of capturing and holding creatures to research bonuses against them. It seems very realistic, and an awesome (and by awesome I mean highly unfortunate) event would be an escaped creature. For a spider it wouldn't be a big deal. But imagine if your Archdemon just escapes. Bad news.

Also, this idea (the OP) allows for more cultural flavor for each faction. If you live near a dark forest swarming with spiders, your faction will eventually become excellent at fighting spiders. If you live near a portal to hell (and you somehow survive), you will become beastly at killing/banishing/whatevering demons. You get the idea.

 

an escaped creature (from your research labs/zoos) could be a relatively rare event, affected by some sort of crime-rate or crowd-mechanism, or efficiency scale. Meh, but a rare event nonetheless.

IN ADDITION, it should also be an espionage tactic. Have spies/assasins? infiltrated enemy Zoo?? Can attempt to release a specific creature, or to try and release all of them. Survival rate of spy for releasing all of them is low, based upon the cumulative strengths of the creatures and the evasion/stealth rate of the spy. Although releasing one creature could have a 50-60% survival rate on average. Depends on how rare they are, an Assasin/Spy champion would either escape (70% chance) or go into tactical zoomed battle with a monster. I think that the battlefield would be an alleyway, or Zoo pen, or crowded city steet, zoomed up into a tactical battlefield. CItizens would be neutral actors that would attempt to flee each turn, sometimes inciting a riot or panicked stampede that you would have to fight yourself through (slaughtering citizens) ... and if you don't escape at point X or defeat creature and escape at point X in C amount of turns, a portion of the City guard shows up, and you WILL have to defeat them in order to escape, although defeating the Monster is optional. Every C turns another portion of the city guard will show up. This could be a very interesting mini-Quest, mini-Battle tied in with Espionage with your Assasin champion.

The more citizens you kill, and city guard companies you kill, the greater chance the Victim will A) know it was not a random event- almost automatic and B ) will be notified who it was- a bit harder to accomplish and C) might even know which hero it was, and in that case he loses his stealth for at least that turn, making it relatively easy for the city guard to hunt him down and initiate battle, in which case its pretty much evade the battle from a retreat, or die fighting. Which is why it might be good to have a high evasion score on assasin/spy champions. If the AI or human decides to attack your Champion, I think its either a 50% chance for War Declaration, or they could simply *decide* to declare war.

I would think that there is a 25-50% chance for the AI to declare war in such a confrontation, or even if the AI simply discovered that it was your agent a 10% chance of war, and after battle with your Champion an additional 25% chance of war.

In any case ... yea ...

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February 23, 2010 5:39:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Having battles in cities with civilians running around would be great. Perhaps even have random militia/veteran groups break out their old weapons and jump into the fray. You would also be limited in spell casting, since you can't just start blasting. You might knockdown an important building, and if a building does get destroyed you would have to rebuild it later.

Having neutral citizens running around a battlefield sounds great. They give a defending force something they need to avoid an attacking army gets some extra targets.

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February 23, 2010 8:39:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Beautiful idea. I would just like to add it would be extraordinarily fun to create new magic creatures by twisting or messing with the specimens you take alive. Perhaps you could even breed hybrids!

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February 23, 2010 9:07:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ya. You hear alot about hybrids. I am under the impression that they are in, but i have not seen anything from a dev on that(and if i have i must of forgotten) along with all the other fun breeding things.

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February 24, 2010 4:54:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Cerevox,
Ya. You hear alot about hybrids. I am under the impression that they are in, but i have not seen anything from a dev on that(and if i have i must of forgotten) along with all the other fun breeding things.

They say it is fun to breed the offspring of one playable race with another. No word on monster breeding or non-royal unit breeding. It would be truly awesome to see Dr. Franknfurter applied together with a way of breeding your captive creatures to create an army or cross-breed them to create abominable hybrids.

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February 24, 2010 10:27:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Not just for royals. There was a big thread on breeding the ultimate war mounts a while ago. Since they already have the genetics code for sovs, it shouldn't be hard to add it for the rest of the critters.(or so this knowledge less person hopes)

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February 25, 2010 1:12:54 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I wonder how economically viable raising the dead will be?

 

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February 25, 2010 1:25:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I hope its totaly cheap. I want a zombie army. Although i am sure yall figured that out by now....

Thinking about it though, any kind of animation of non-alive stuff should be easy. I mean, your channeler Is brining the whole damn world back to life. He should be able to get some golems/zombies/elementals up and moving without too much trouble.

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February 25, 2010 2:02:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, an ecosystem is a complex machine. Organizing the bottom levels of that machine alone, requires far little effort than reorganizing the Life-function of a unit.

I say that raising someone completely to a Cognitive state would be equivalent to Reviving a Large section of the world, however of course not as expensive, as say, an essence cost. Unless of course your reviving a Dragon into a Draco-Lich and actually expect to be able to control it. Other than complete Mastery of the Undead Magic, I would say at least 10 essence cost. (5-10 if its a one-time thing, 15 or so if its duplicable)

 

Other than raising giant bone-dragons (8 essence) or Draco-Liches (15 essence), I think raising the undead should be fairly cheap. Raising large numbers of 1 hp, 1 attack, 1 defense "goons" should be extremely cheap and only require a bit of mana and available dead bodies. Making stronger undead (reviving them to greater strengths, efficiencies) should be more expensive, as well as a possible Per-Turn mana cost ... meaning that your mana-pool for each turn will be reduced by X for having that Bone-General or Zombie Lord roaming about (think Resident Evil bosses).

essentially, having weak crumbly undead will be cheap, while stronger squads of undead will have significant cost, and Zombie"Bosses" or somesuch will have an expensive cost as well as a significant Mana upkeep.

I think "battleRank" or some such format as units seem to be organized by, should be an appropriate factor for determining Undead cost. yes, im hoping we get to customize our own undead units. Of course, there is the alternate course of action to revive the units to their "former" state (AKA bone-Dragon), or to use their soul and body to make something truly transcendant (AKA Draco-Lich).

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February 26, 2010 8:07:37 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Just a thought... but I really like the mention of hybrids. I've read all the posts on genetics and breeding but I hadn't really thought about adding captured monsters and breeding them... with each other or perhaps with your own troops.

I'd like it if your default troops could evolve over time with breeding. Imagine magically assisted breeding with giant spiders, when you've captured every spider you can find. Eventually you have your local militia with a large number of legs and arms... mostly asthetic but in addition to spider silk armour and venom tipped spears... it would be impressive to see... or amazingly disgusting... depending on how well it works...

I'm not sure the best way of implimenting it... maybe you could have it as a random event and gain a new default option in the soldier design (like having a new clothes or hairstyle... just... Hybrid-style) Or an essence requiring action or spell? Or research path. Or mana/essence requiring equipment in unit design?

I suppose you could combine all of them, if you've researched whatever creature it is, have one captive and have researched 'Hybrids' you could randomly have any creatures mate with any other creature... or your troops. That would result in a new summon to research (from breeding with each other) or troop equip/default if they mate with a human. You could have spells to force specific matings and highly incompatible mates should require essence...sometimes a massive massive amount, think wonder of the world amount for anything really amazing or game breakingly powerful and fun.

Undead dragons with humans?

half-living and yet half-undead with the bonuses and weaknesses of both, fear (weakness and aura) +banishment weakness +healing (reduced but not zero) +requires food?
flying
fire-breathing
human-sized... but a little bigger
able to heal? (the human part of it)
magic/banishing resistant (dragon blood)
mundane weapon resistant (dragon scales)

I think that would be worth 20 essence at least, I'd definately save up for something of that magnitude.

How about mating a Human and Titan?
Spellcasting default (like dark elves from MoM)
resistant to everything

Human + Troll?
Regenerating, ugly... HP bonus + defence bonus

Scion with a fairy? - tiny flying necromancers? (i assume scions are undead/necro/bloodmagic types)
Trog with a slug monster? - ugly... ugly...
Dragon with a spider? - giant fire breathing, wasp like, web spinning summon?

 

Perhaps anything summoned could have a soft cap of 2 or 3, anything with a human could take more effort to make but would be cheaper to produce and could become a regular addition to your army.

 

Thinking further... the easiest way of implimenting this would be a piece of equipment gained on successful breeding. Say a type of boots for spider people, which instead of adding boots changes 2 legs into 6. (+2arms still, has combat speed bonus and attack bonus at least). It would take up the equipment slot of the body part it affects, but you could always have 3 versions: Spider legs, armoured spider legs and Steel-plated spider legs for example with different equipment bonuses.

For some that affect the entire body it would be harder... like making troops huge or tiny... (giant or fairy breeding)

Still, breeding dragons could have different types of hybrids... say a helmet that gives fire-breathing (+ dragon bonus), cloak that gives wings, or a tail... or both (+flying, attack and dragon bonus). It would compensate the added strength if they couldn't equip normal items.

Perhaps custom made items could use a default image for that type... so if you had a hero that was a human/dragon-winged/8-legged spider... you could enchant spider leg armour using the steel-spider item as a base to make a new glowing version of spider leg armour +5... or wing armour for your dragon wings... or dragon helmet (dragon breath resistant)... But these would obviously be specific to that modified bodypart and not able to be equiped by non-hybrids.

I'd like it as a method for making your humans undead and trainable by default... just equip a pendant of raising and your recruited troops are zombies? Another thought is that for breeding, maybe you could use a creature you can summon yourself rather than capture. So if you're a death mage, able to summon skeletons... you could use essence to breed them with humans to gain the undead item. (maybe easier to mate zombies... just for practical purposes... hence the essence cost)

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February 26, 2010 1:31:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The blue-prints for such an item would probably cost essence, and alot of Arcane researach. The creation of such items would cost Mana or Shard-magic. The equipping of such item magically effects the soldiers' atman, and transforms him into a spiritual representation of the envisioned mutation.

He may not visually change in any recognizable genetic expression, however there is certainly a difference and its expressed in abilities and traits of that unit.

If cosmetic can be applied as well, that is fantastic, however not neccesary. (other than perhaps glowing skin patterns).

 

An undead item would have units cause (limited)fear, be weaker to arcane/holy spells and banishment, not require food, and have a slightly slower attack speed and less maintanence. Cosmetic representation could be an Ashen gray skin-pattern. glowing dull-ly at best.

A demonic item could cause (increased) fear, double upkeep, 50% damage increase, 20% hitpoints increase, +1 combat speed, and be represented by brilliant skin-patterns of Orange or Red.

A draconic item could cause magic and physical resistance (increased defense and Magic Shielding), increase hitpoints, slight increase of attack, slight increase in damage. One Upgraded Version could allow magical flight, Another Upgraded Verision could allow minor dragon's breath, and Another Upgraded version could allow Ultimate Fear. (these are three different upgrade paths for the item, not one UBER-GOD death item, but one of three upgrades) would be represented By Brilliantly Glowing patterns. The original item could be expressed by a green skin pattern (possibly bronze). The flying upgrade would be expressed by a brilliant purple skin pattern. The Fire-breath by a Brilliant Golden color (or Red), and the Fear upgrade by an Obsidian Skin-pattern.

A Troll item could be a dark Umber skin pattern ... weakness to fire, increased attack/def, 30% increase in hitpoints, and slight health regen (1hp per 2 combat turns?)

An Umberdroth item could be expressed by arcs of blue lightning across a purely obsidian skin. Movement Speed and Combat speed increased 20%. 25% Damage reduction. Ability to tunnel beneath the ground(debatable), and Cannibalization. (can spend combat rounds feasting on a kill to regenerate health.

An Edar item could be expressed by Golden Lightning arcing across a purely Jade-colored skin. Allows magical flight. Adds to the Mana of their unit, allowing them to Cast a random powerful spell of a random element (if enough mana). If mana does not add up to the minimum amount for the minimum level of spell X, then spell-casting fizzles. The more mana, the more powerful, as the Spell will always be maximum strength possible, so minimum mana will give minimum damage, and max mana will give max damage. Attack and Defense increased by 1. Movement Speed increased 30%.

A Titan or Angelic Item would glow a brilliant Silver-white across an otherwise obsidian skin. (brilliant blue-white is optional replacement of the silver-white). Hit Points increased 50%. Magic Shielding of 50%, non-stackable. AttackSpeed lowered by 2, although cannot go below 1. Combat Speed decreased by 1. Attack and Defense increased by 2. If unit is destroyed it is reborn in the capital without the item, at the original number it was created with.

 

By these stats, a Roughly Expressed Opinion is that Titan/Angelic items are the most powerful. Upgraded Dragon items are right below them @ facevalue. Although all other items have thier uses and respective costs.

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February 26, 2010 2:36:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well I don't think they all have to be simple colour changes... it can't be too difficult to draw some rough horns or wings in 3D and have those as items to represent demons or dragons. Even a little halo for angelic. Maybe some colour changes and auras would be harder to show or distinguish because they'd look bad with the lighting effects turned off... or with different base skin tones. If you can have different shaped cloaks I'm sure tiny purple bat wings folded up on your back wouldn't be too hard. Maybe take a day to make and a day to test but still possible.

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February 26, 2010 2:51:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Will their be flying in the tactical battles or just aesthetics and fluff?

I would like to be able to summon magical armies, undead, demonic, and such. I understand we can create units but I am a little fuzzy on game mechanics and unit creations. Are any of you in the beta?

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February 26, 2010 2:56:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

We don't know if there are or will be flying units in the game (yet). The beta is still too young (just Beta 1 of 5, covering just the basics) to know for us the normal users.

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