Quick Tactical Battle Idea

By on October 14, 2009 3:48:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Popcornlord

Join Date 09/2009
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Here's a quick idea I thought would be good for tactical battles, when their implented:

It seems like in every tbs game I've played with seperate tactical battles, the battlefield always takes from the defender's tile. Why? Why not include the attackers tile too, so the attacker can plan his advance on the enemy. And what about nearby units? What I'm suggesting is that during a battle, the battlefield is the defender's tile plus all of the surrounding tiles. This will make it feel more realistic, give you greater control over the battle and put the player in an interesting game of positions.

An Example:

Say I have army a on a forest tile. I'm attacking army b, on grassland. Army c, owned by me, is directly across, over a river. So the battlefield includes all of that, plus surrounding area. My army will ambush from the woods. Army C will be there to join, in a surrounding manuver, or stay relativly out of it, defended by the river. If a neutral army's near, it'll be there too, as an obstical or sudden enemy. This should be most interesting in sieges, when there's alot of buildings, some of which will be rushed to be defended.

Thoughts? I hope I've explained it enough.

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October 14, 2009 3:56:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like it. It kinda ties in with my idea where I state that to use more units you'll definitely need a larger battle field.

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October 14, 2009 4:17:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like the idea of large battlefields and support from armies that are nearby.  However, I've suggested before that we could add suspense by having armies support a battle, even several squares away, at imprecise times.  What I suggest is have an army arrive to support an attack or defense based on the speed of the army, distance from the fight, and a random component.  This would add a level of uncertainty and urgency to battles.  Not to mention the need for strategic reserves if the joining armies would flank the main force.

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October 14, 2009 4:47:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I really like this idea, popcornlord! It reminds me of shadow magic. I agree with klaxton that there needs to be a certain level of uncertainty to battles in general in order to keep them fresh and exciting from game to game

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October 14, 2009 4:58:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Very good idea, complicated tactical situations are a great addition to the game.  If people do not like them, they can do the 'auto compute results' option (similar to what is in Beta now).

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October 14, 2009 5:29:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Good idea.

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October 14, 2009 5:55:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm pretty sure the random map generation for tactical battles already does this     Not well, mind you, but it's a start

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October 14, 2009 6:07:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting BoogieBac,
I'm pretty sure the random map generation for tactical battles already does this     Not well, mind you, but it's a start

Boogie [hopefully you will take a look at this topic again, because I have a question ]....can you tell us some secrets like....how big the tactical battle maps are? I am really worried, because the one what we can see on the one and only tact. battle screenie looks extremely small to me.

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October 14, 2009 7:10:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Reinforcements - I'd say use the SM adjacent hex rule.


Also add a button that allows units that can reach an enemy unit to "reinforce"

 

They head towards the battle, and will arrive at some point based on aall those factors.  If the battlle ends early, they travel somewhat towards the tile, and use up the proper proportion of their moves in doing so.  (as a percentage)


I'd also want to see draw battles continue into the next turn, after a 30 or 40 turn limit.  Think Romance of Three Kingdoms IV.

 

 

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October 14, 2009 9:12:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Tormy-,

Boogie [hopefully you will take a look at this topic again, because I have a question ]....can you tell us some secrets like....how big the tactical battle maps are? I am really worried, because the one what we can see on the one and only tact. battle screenie looks extremely small to me.

Agreed. They must be bigger then the screenshot we saw. Hopefully that was a zoomed in picture and not the whole field.

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October 15, 2009 2:05:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Perhaps a random map generator ... but taking into account of surrounding terrain. If in between mountains, have sloping hills throughout, especially rising towards the edge, growing into unreachable areas eventually.

if surrounded by a forest, lightly forested glades interspersed throughout the map with thick growth of forest nearer to the edge.

 

Near a lake or ocean ... and part of the map (up to a third, no less than a tenth) will be unreachable by (most) units ... proposing a possible tactical advantage to flying and swimming type units.

In fertile land or floodplain (high chance) and most other terrain (low chance) for a river to run through the map (various sizes) although biggest rivers be found in River Deltas/Swamps and the non-Delta river-mouths ... both are near the coast ... so essentially the closer to the coast the larger the river could be (on average).

Most rivers could be waded through at several points, some rivers shallow enough to be only a minor hindrance ... and others would perhaps need an on-map bridge structure in order to be crossed. Spells, work-crews, and help from aquatic life could help in crossing a particularly troublesome river ... although taking and holding bridges could be a strategic advantage ... and destroying a bridge to deny you enemy that potential would be an interesting decision. I propose that if well within your territory building/rebuilding a bridge should take little effort, although the farther away from your capital, and the more enemy units in the area, the more difficult/ more expensive recreating a bridge, or magically making the river section able to cross (temporarily) will become.

river, ocean, and forest could be interesting terrain where certain types of training and equipment could provide bonuses and penalties.

On the same token, snows/ ice and desert sands should have similar effects. For the most part heavy snows and desert heat would increase exhaustion, while desert sands and permafrost would restrict movement ... and possibly incur a penalty in either defense or attack.

an effective strategy certain desert peoples used (against the romans I believed?) was to ambush them by pouring tar (hot tar?) onto the soldiers, and it gets inbetween the metal armor and makes them scream in agony as the real threat clamors down (or reveals themselves) and commits to the slaughter.

In the other extreme, specialized barbaric forces in the north would use a combination of winter snows and woods to hold effective ambushes ... however ultimately the winter was a drag on both forces ... those accustomed could use the natural advantage to great affect in specialized circumstances. Other than an over-all light bonus to the conditions. (but commando units specialized to the terrain usually suffer without their terrain bonuses ... desert ones for instance, due to lack of armor)

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March 12, 2010 8:06:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

A random map generator is a necessity of course for a game like this.  So why not a random tactical map?


You should be able to choose if your reinforcements enter the battle, you might not want them to (in order to avoid movement loss)

 

A quicker force should be able to evade a strong force, at the cost of some movement  (this should be randomized with weights for speeds, trying to pursue should cost moves as well)

 

There also needs to be an auto-retreat option to avoid battles dragging on forever.

 

 

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March 12, 2010 3:58:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm pretty sure Age of Wonders had this feature. And yes, it is great.

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March 16, 2010 2:41:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

"So why not a random tactical map? "

As in, I move and set up my forces based on the exsisting terrain for a pending Battle on the current  (the World) randomly generated map, but then have to fight Tactically on another Randomly generated one?

That sounds totally crazy... There would be no way to prepare Tactically for a GD tactical battle.

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March 16, 2010 3:53:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

yea, Tactical Battles shouldn't be completely repetitive/boring, however they should be determined Exactly by the terrain.

AKA, higher ground in Strategy Map = higher Ground in Tactical map ... however little details like a minor stream, and abandoned fort, patches of trees, a farmer's Vineyard, mysteroius wall, or the ebb and flow of the particular terrain can be randomized to a point.

A plains map shouldnt be entirely covered in trees, but about 20% of the map or so can be covered in trees, in various patches around the map.

Just because your on a Hill doesnt mean you are over-looking a cliff-face, with slowly rising trails to either side that they must march upwards .... however its possible.

I do think, however, that each square should (once randomized) be the same. So, while each hill tile is "randomized" with strategical input, once its decided upon, it never changes.

 

Not sure entirely, but Tactical Map should portray the Strategic map, simply in more detail. Also, there should be less consistency within Homologous Terrain types, and MORE consistency when its in the same square, the same city.

I don't want City Sieges to look the same each time unless the city looks the same.

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March 17, 2010 6:26:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like this idea as well. I said something similar here http://forums.elementalgame.com/377327, though I didn't specify that the terrain should be reflected both visually and tactically inside the combat screen, as it couldn't apply given the context of my post.

I think that this idea would add an additional level of strategy to the game, forcing a player to decide the best time and place to attack a group of units to get the most tactical advantages.

Well done.

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March 17, 2010 7:49:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

so far all i needed was my Sov with plate armor had like 24 in total he only got defeated twice lost his mana... his duaghters and sons had to remove the mountains thats all i need for now until they fix it.

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