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Goodmorning all,

Drawing from
https://forums.elementalgame.com/354543 Espionage
https://forums.elementalgame.com/361114 Grima
https://forums.elementalgame.com/361383 Single Unit Visibility

and various other sources. I would like to propose a 2 part solution to the 'spy problem'.

There are two primary camps i see on the forums about spying.

Camp A: Spys are on map units that can sneak into an area and brake and/or steal stuff.
Camp B: Spys are long term agents of control and mis-direction that infiltrate and subvert an opponents empire.

As I see it the two are irreconcilable. So I suggest we don't try.

Common requests of Camp A; highly stealth unit, trainable for assassination, bulk money/resource stealing, well poisoning, sabotage/destroy structure, map and plan stealing. . . what they want is military special ops. So I propose a military trainable unit, like any trainable unit.
Take a regular troop + 'special ops' training, + SO::town infiltration(can enter a town to do a mission and escape from that town undetected) + a vial of ultra concentrated unpleasant death = special ops with 'Poison Well'.
Regular troop + 'special ops' training + Gauntlet of magic NULL(renders all other magical equipment inert within certain area) + 'One on One mastery' + 'SO::Army Infiltration' = special ops unit with assassinate hero (enters 1 on 1 combat vrs Hero).

Equipping different tool, and training different skills allows a unit to behave as a special OP. We are already know that all military units will be drawn from the same cloth, and this proposal is true to that. There is no special on map unit, but any unit can be given SO training and tools and be used as such.

Common requests of Camp B: Separate spy desk, non RNG dominated missions, espionage and counter espionage, missions that give control over ones opponents, or parts of their empire, resource siphoning, causing diplomatic upsets, Trainable, equitable, spell able, unique units. NO SLIDERS.

This system I suggest be implemented an extension of a diplomatic system. Since the first and lowest level spys will just be diplomats opening doors they are not supposed to, reading things off peoples desks upside down, and listening to all the gossip they can. As they level up, and your understanding of their culture increases spys acquire the ability to assume identities, forge paperwork, begin to siphon resources. High level spys, with special training in the culture can be assigned to 'join the empire' they leave, and re-enter the empire as an faction-less wanderer, a nomad. They join the empire and begin to serve in their assigned roll. Each assigned roll would have its own list of activate-able abilities, and innate effects in the target society(General town unit, Sow decent, siphon profits, arrange for the doors to be opened in the event of a siege... Military unit, could corrupt moral, report battle plans, corrupt allegiance... ). All such spys would sending back reports when they can, but would in general not be directly controllable any longer, any contact with them would risk discovery (as discussed in the other pages). The highest level spys, or spys with essence (probably both) could be sent to gain influence over leaders, eventually if successful, leading to mind control of lesser leaders.


These units would not be military, would not show up on the map, and would have different skills. Warriors and Special ops units have health, attack defense …. Spys have charisma, intelligence, a measure of how observant they are, and maybe 1 or 2 other basic skills. When you get a new spy, what you assign them to do would strongly on their scores in those basic skills. Items and spells can be given to boost those skills as well. These units would not have assassination, or well poisoning steal lump sums of money.. . But would be able to steal techs spells, relay battle plans, Etc.

How does this sound to everybody??

Best wishes all,

Robbie Price.