Concerns with life & death magic

By on July 24, 2009 3:15:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

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Ok, in the recent journal entry, It was stated that all Empires use death magic, and all Kingdoms use life magic. Well that's all well and good, except in an earlier journal it was stated that all Fallen factions are "Empires" and all Human factions are "Kingdoms"...Does this mean that every human faction will use life magic, and every Fallen faction will use death magic?

--It's not really a big deal, but it's kind of hard to believe that not one fallen faction has "seen the light", and not one human faction has "gone down the dark path" (From my experience with humans, I find this highly unlikely )

--or does this simply mean a re-defining of the term Empires/Kingdoms to now refer to their respective type of magic used?

...DISCUSS!!!

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July 24, 2009 4:56:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

"Empires" and "Kingdoms" are only relevant for the premade factions, as is the Fallen/Human present dichotomy. Presumably, you'll also be able to define wheter your Sovereign and/or Channelers will be using Life or Death independant from your choice of race.

In my own interpretation, of course.

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July 24, 2009 7:05:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Um, maybe their choice to follow life or death magic is THE defining feature that determines if they are Human or Fallen?

Now what I would like to see is a choice of a "non-evil" Fallen that uses death magic such as ancestor spirits and other benign uses of death magic as well as a Human faction that uses warped Life Magiv to create monsters, constructs etc.

In an earlier post it was statd that Humans are a mix of good and evil, but the Fallen are universally evil. Not sure I am that concerned about any of it until I have seen it.

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July 24, 2009 9:24:19 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I agree with Denryu, but I think that although the humans will be LARGELY good and the fallen will be LARGELY evil, we might get one or two "shifters" in the mix.

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July 24, 2009 9:40:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think they've changed it up. No paticular faction is stuck being "good" or "evil" or using life or death magic. In the beginning of the game you pick your faction and pick which magic you want to imbue the land with.

Thats the way I read it.

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July 24, 2009 10:12:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

As did I, i think race will be an entirely different thing from what kind of magic your channeler uses. What i fail to understand is, in an earlier journal entry brad said we are starting out as just a channeler and we are to pick up people as we go along right? Maybe if we choose to use life over death, "kingdoms" will be more likely to join us and vice versa?

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July 24, 2009 12:25:58 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Maybe if we choose to use life over death, "kingdoms" will be more likely to join us and vice versa?

That would make a lot of sense.... especially if channelers can be of a different species than their subjects.

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July 24, 2009 12:26:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't understand the confusion it seems that this was clearly answered under "good and evil" in the July FAQ.

Or maybe *I* am the confused one, it seems evident to me that Humans = Kingdoms = Life Magic and Fallen = Empires = Death Magic.

Why have Fallen that can use Life and Human that can use Death when the choice of which magic they use is the primary differentiating characteristic from what I have read!

Again, other than "hunches", "gut feelings" etc can anyone point me to anything any dev has posted that would lead you to believe otherwise? Without torturing words to mean what you want them to mean?

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July 24, 2009 12:31:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Or maybe *I* am the confused one, it seems evident to me that Humans = Kingdoms = Life Magic and Fallen = Empires = Death Magic.

The Kingdoms=life/empires=death is confirmed. It's the Humans=Kingdoms/Fallen=Empires that I never heard any dev confirmation of.

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July 24, 2009 12:48:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It's the Humans=Kingdoms/Fallen=Empires that I never heard any dev confirmation of.
Fairly certain Frog said that some time ago... can't find it though.

 

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July 24, 2009 1:08:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hmmm the most definitive post I can find on it was posted by Aeon....I could very well have been led astray, my brains may have made a connection that wasn't there...

In my defense here is what Aeon posted a LONG time ago..

It might be a bit of a pointless diversion, but let's speculate on the characteristics of factions based purely on their names (which is pretty much all we have right now). It might throw up some good ideas/stimulate some detail leakage from the developers. You could also contribute smaller faction ideas you have, or things you would like to see. If you have a full blown faction idea it probably belongs in this thread.

Kingdoms of Men:

  • Kingdom of Altar
  • Kingdom of Yoren
  • Kingdom of Gildren
  • Kingdom of Tarth
  • Kingdom of Capitar
  • Kingdom of Ithul

    Empires of the Fallen:

  • Empire of Uthugul
  • Empire of Calax
  • Empire of Turzog
  • Empire of Izen
  • Empire of Dol-Sirion
  • Empire of Korin

    Now as far as I can see the only mention of any of these names elsewhere is that Calax is a Dread Knight, last seen falling off a balcony. Now apart from the fact that the Empire of Calax are going to be slightly bitter about the whole balcony thing (irrespective of whether Calax survived or not), I'm speculating that they are a highly militaristic empire made up of hosts of unswervingly obedient grunts. Their magic is of the sort that gives their troops a distinct military advantage, allows them to produce larger numbers of troops quickly and instills fear in the opposition.

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    July 24, 2009 1:41:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    Is Aeon even a dev? I've never heard of him/her before...... in any event, if not a dev, (s)he most likely got the names from an old dev journal I have been unable to dig up in which Brad drew a map of the cameighn world, with the empires Aeon attributes to Men were on one side (left or right, forget which), and the "Fallen" ones were on the other. I for one don't see why some couldn't have jumped over: Yorin, Tarth, and Ithul sound more like Fallen names to me, and Izen and Dol-Sirion sound "Manny".

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    July 24, 2009 1:50:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    Aeon is not a dev; I was just stating the post that I drew my possibly incorrect conclusions from.

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    July 24, 2009 2:01:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    Kingdoms (men) use life magic and empires (fallen) use death magic. I have never noticed any change in that information. Except that until now we didn't know exactly the life/death as element.

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    July 24, 2009 3:11:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    Yep, this seems pretty standard. Though if you make a custom game, presumably you could use a custom race like in Galciv and then just mix it up however you like.

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    July 24, 2009 3:13:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    The Kingdoms=life/empires=death is confirmed. It's the Humans=Kingdoms/Fallen=Empires that I never heard any dev confirmation of.

    The confirmation was made in this dev post:

    The Factions

    There are 12 named factions (races) in Elemental. In addition, players will be able to create and submit their own factions to be shared by other users.

    Each of the 12 named factions will have its own history and back story.  Those factions are:

    • Kingdom of Altar
    • Kingdom of Yoren
    • Kingdom of Gildren
    • Kingdom of Tarth
    • Kingdom of Capitar
    • Kingdom of Ithul
    • Empire of Uthugul
    • Empire of Calax
    • Empire of Turzog
    • Empire of Izen
    • Empire of Dol-Sirion
    • Empire of Korin

    The Kingdoms are of men, the Empires are made up of the Fallen.

    So by combining these two pieces of information, we have Kingdom=Humans=Life magic and Empire=Fallen=Death magic. Now it's possible that this is only rigid in the campaign mode and that we'll be able to mix and match as we want in sandbox mode... I hope that's the case, anyways.

    But what will really make it for me is if the types of things you can do with life vs. death magic are not largely divided by good vs. evil boundaries. Like Denryu said, being able to call on ancestor spirits and the like with death magic and other such things that wouldn't really fall under 'evil.' Likewise there could be ways to use life that would normally be considered evil... If they really make it so that you can't say "oh, life magic is good and death magic is evil" I'll be really happy!

    The last thing regarding this topic is that I really hope they don't lock death magic sovereigns into having barren lava wastelands. Because if that's the case, I will hardly ever use death magic.

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    July 24, 2009 3:50:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    Thanks pigeon, karma to you for tracking down that dev post. I was sure I had read it somewhere but I could not find it (and I used search and everything!

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    July 24, 2009 4:01:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    Well, that journal is rather old, and the game has changed a lot since then, but....... in any event, one of the first things I will mod is human empires and fallen kingdoms.

    The last thing regarding this topic is that I really hope they don't lock death magic sovereigns into having barren lava wastelands. Because if that's the case, I will hardly ever use death magic.
    Another item for my mod list: terrein-switchers that give both sides green land, both sides mordor-y land, and one that switches them around. Although I personally find the mordor-ground in the screenshots to be rather fetching....

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    July 24, 2009 4:13:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    I want ice and snow. "Seasons: War of Faeries" presents Faery Queen Spring versus Faery Empress Winter!

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    July 24, 2009 4:27:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    I want ice and snow. "Seasons: War of Faeries" presents Faery Queen Spring versus Faery Empress Winter! 

    Yeah, I'd love for there to be a whole list of terrain types that you could choose. I'd also like for your terrain choice to only be one factor in what the land becomes as you revive it. Having all your terrain be just grasslands, or just lava lands, or just snow would be a bit boring. As you revive the land, you should get some mix of everything. Obviously it shouldn't be random and spotted everywhere, and you should probably even be able to tell what the land will become even before you revive it.

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    July 24, 2009 4:36:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    As you revive the land, you should get some mix of everything. Obviously it shouldn't be random and spotted everywhere, and you should probably even be able to tell what the land will become even before you revive it.

    Well, my concept of this is that there are three terrein "pallettes" (life, death, and unrevived), that contain many different terrein "types" like forest, plain, mountain, river, and so on. Investing essence in a land area turns its "pallette" from unrevived to either life ordeath depending on your alignment, but a mountain stays a mountain, and just gets a different "look".

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    July 24, 2009 4:45:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    One of the screenshots shows snow so there might be some of what pigeonpigeon says.

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    July 24, 2009 5:18:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    Quoting Scoutdog,

    As you revive the land, you should get some mix of everything. Obviously it shouldn't be random and spotted everywhere, and you should probably even be able to tell what the land will become even before you revive it.


    Well, my concept of this is that there are three terrein "pallettes" (life, death, and unrevived), that contain many different terrein "types" like forest, plain, mountain, river, and so on. Investing essence in a land area turns its "pallette" from unrevived to either life ordeath depending on your alignment, but a mountain stays a mountain, and just gets a different "look".

     

    That's how I picture it.

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    July 24, 2009 6:45:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    Well, my concept of this is that there are three terrein "pallettes" (life, death, and unrevived), that contain many different terrein "types" like forest, plain, mountain, river, and so on. Investing essence in a land area turns its "pallette" from unrevived to either life ordeath depending on your alignment, but a mountain stays a mountain, and just gets a different "look".

    Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, albeit not so eloquently... Sometimes I have trouble translating my thoughts into words

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    July 24, 2009 7:07:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    I get that all the time. Don't worry....... I hope that the GFX palettes are non-code-moddable.... still learning, thanks to you all's help.

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    July 24, 2009 8:29:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

    I don't like the idea of tying things together.  The great thing about MoM was that you could play a life wizard and rule the dark elves or play a death wizard and lead the halflings.

    There was amazing variety and strategy in the many different combinations of races, spellbook colours and wizard skills (retorts).

    When you start taking away choices from the players, you make the game less interesting.

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