Combat

By on June 21, 2009 3:23:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Rocky_Tooth

Join Date 04/2009
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Maybe I'm crazy but I have not been able to find anything what so ever pertaining to the combat system in the game.  It certainly would be nice to see a dev journal about it..   Is there something I missed?

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June 21, 2009 3:35:19 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

only hints and tid-bits.  If you're looking for anything definate, you're out of luck.   You'll have to wait for the alpha (assuming they don't have auto-resolve in the alpha)

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June 21, 2009 8:32:21 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, I wouldn't say that is entirely true: Brad had definatively said that there will be tactical combat and that it will not be real-time, which only leaves T-B and S-T. Other than that, though, it's still up in the air.

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June 21, 2009 9:49:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Scoutdog,
Well, I wouldn't say that is entirely true: Brad had definatively said that there will be tactical combat and that it will not be real-time, which only leaves T-B and S-T. Other than that, though, it's still up in the air.
Au contraire. What we do know is that tactical combat will be real-time, with a pause function, rather than turn-based or.. I don't even know what S-T is.

Unless they've changed their minds and I just missed it.

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June 21, 2009 10:18:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The last thing I heard was that tactical combat would be "like X-Com, but faster". I will see if I can find the relevant post.

 

Elemental_1244581868 Q: I've heard this game referred to as "Master of Magic 2"

A: While Master of Magic is definitely a major source of inspiration for Elemental. A lot has changed technologically since then that we (game developers) couldn't do back then. In an age of multithreaded supporting OSes, we can have much better computer AI for enemy players and game mechanics that benefit from what is possible today (3D engines for doing very very nasty things to the game world when you have enough magic -- think Populous).

Another example is how cities can be handled now. There isn't a separate interface for managing cities. Cities grow on the main map itself. When players click on any part of the city they get the options for the entire city right away on the same main UI. The idea is to keep the user interface out of the player's face and let them concentrate on playing the game.

That said, there's a lot of influence here. Tactical battles, for instance, will have some inspiration from XCOM (though much shorter in length).

This was from the June 2009 FAQ post

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June 21, 2009 10:19:34 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Weren't the turns happening in real time but still turns you could pause to issue new orders or whatever?

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June 21, 2009 12:27:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Wintersong,
Weren't the turns happening in real time but still turns you could pause to issue new orders or whatever?

That's the still-mysterious-to-some-of-us "continuous turn-based" thing. I've never played Corporate or Political Machine, which some folks have mentioned as examples of what Stardock means by "continuous turn-based." There's a free Political Machine Express on Impulse, but I haven't had time to give it a try.

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June 21, 2009 12:36:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Same here. I think that it is something like chess: you move a thing, then the other guy moves a thing, then you go again, etc.

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June 21, 2009 1:34:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

see this is why I said "tid-bits" and not anything definate.  I still imagine X-com (is turn based) but I remember discussion about real-time something or other.    I'm sticking to "not enough details to say"

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June 21, 2009 2:04:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

As I've come to understand it, it's comparable to Baldur's Gate, where there is also turns - although it's still fully in real-time. It's been discussed at some length in some threads. Landi, go fetch!

Quoting Scoutdog,
Same here. I think that it is something like chess: you move a thing, then the other guy moves a thing, then you go again, etc.
It's been said by Brad that releasing the tactical combat images with the "chessboard" bottom was a mistake, because tactical combat is nothing like that (like AoW/HoMM, etc)

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June 21, 2009 3:30:51 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, I don't particularly care, as long as there is some sort of a functional pause system. Otherwise, I would find it quite unplayable.

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June 21, 2009 5:38:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

So not much hope for seeing large and grand armies duke it out under your control?

Of course as landisaurus says, nothing truly known at this point

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June 21, 2009 6:48:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

So not much hope for seeing large and grand armies duke it out under your control?

Actually, considering the screenshots, it looks like (just guestimating here, mind you) we will have armies of at LEAST 30 units or so, if you decide to go the cannon fodder route.

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June 21, 2009 9:32:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Wintersong,
Weren't the turns happening in real time but still turns you could pause to issue new orders or whatever?
Perhaps that would be something like the 'pausable real-time' in Europa Universalis then?

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June 21, 2009 10:56:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Scoutdog,

So not much hope for seeing large and grand armies duke it out under your control?


Actually, considering the screenshots, it looks like (just guestimating here, mind you) we will have armies of at LEAST 30 units or so, if you decide to go the cannon fodder route.

Well, I hope this snippet from Frogboy's May 26 post is more indicative of the army size...

Contemporary fiction tends to trivialize the significance of a non-industrialized society being able to train and equip 10,000 men with swords, plate mail, steel helmets, leather boots, etc.  But in reality, being able to do that is an incredible achievement.

Granted, he does not explicitly say we will have 10,000 men under arms, but I hope to see tactical battles of certainly several hundreds of units. That may be pie-in the sky, but I also reemember a Frogboy post (March 16) where he mentions creatures that could take out squadrons of soldiers - that sounds like more than 30 to me.

Unless I am misunderstanding your use of the word units - are you talking individual men when you say units, or are you talking about a squad or company when you say units?

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June 22, 2009 9:16:56 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm talking individual men. I had not seen these posts, and while I thought we would be getting more, I only had concrete proof of thirty or so, hence the "at least".

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June 23, 2009 1:04:00 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If I can't make individual units that are larger than that, I'll break down and cry before release rolls around...  Not that I'd mind playing such a limited game, but not after all the statements on what the Frog wants to do with combat.

 

You can't have some army slaying titan walking through hordes of troops without having hordes of troops to walk through.

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June 23, 2009 2:13:55 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

From this dev journal:

Sizes of armies

As a player, one of my questions about this kind of thing would be how big are the armies going to be?  The answer is that it’s going to vary a great deal.

At the start of the game, I would imagine the sovereign walking around alone or maybe with 10 foot soldiers armed with pikes. Those early battles will be pretty straight forward.

Later on, however, you could have battles with thousands of soldiers with a few recruited magical creatures involved along with your hero.

Frogboy or BoogieBac has also said somewhere (I can't find it) that units would be divided into groups of various sizes, ranging from squads of 10 to legions of 300 (though I'm sure those numbers were mostly guesswork). Each group, regardless of size, would be made up out of the same type of unit (so no legion made up of 200 swordsmen and 100 archers), but that many groups moving together (like a fleet in GC 2) compose your armies.

So until further notice I'd expect to see armies of thousands of units on each side.

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June 24, 2009 10:06:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I pre-ordered based on what I read about turn-based strategy, if it is not I will be sorely disappointed. I do not like real time stuff, I find it a click fest and who ever clicks fastest wins. I may as well go play WoW then. Please tell me it is turn based.

 

sincerely and old time gamer.

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June 25, 2009 12:16:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Zog,
I pre-ordered based on what I read about turn-based strategy, if it is not I will be sorely disappointed. I do not like real time stuff, I find it a click fest and who ever clicks fastest wins. I may as well go play WoW then. Please tell me it is turn based.

Worst comes to worst for you, if combat has even a hint of a real-time component to it you could always use auto-resolve. It would effectively turn combat into a somewhat more complicated version of that seen in games like Civ and GC2. Obviously that isn't ideal for you, but if Stardock decides that having a little bit of real-time in their combat system is the best course of action you aren't completely SOL. The rest of the game will definitely be turn-based, so you don't have to worry about that at least.

So basically, if you are completely opposed to using any combat system that is at all real time and if Elemental uses such a combat system, then Elemental will be the same game just with the simplified variety of combat that is prominent in many 4X games.

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June 25, 2009 4:28:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Zog,
I pre-ordered based on what I read about turn-based strategy, if it is not I will be sorely disappointed. I do not like real time stuff, I find it a click fest and who ever clicks fastest wins. I may as well go play WoW then. Please tell me it is turn based.
Most of the game is turn-based. The tactical combat is, as far as we're currently informed, not.

I feel for you, even if I think WoW is a pretty bad example of twitch-gaming.

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June 25, 2009 7:28:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ok Thanks for the support. I have been looking for a new game to fill in the void for my old school style. If the majority is turn based and I have an option to allow the game to resolve combat that would be fine.

 

Thanks.

 

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June 25, 2009 8:08:21 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Zog,
Ok Thanks for the support. I have been looking for a new game to fill in the void for my old school style. If the majority is turn based and I have an option to allow the game to resolve combat that would be fine.
 
Thanks.
If the game were even "Europa Universalis" "turn-based", I'd be out of here so quick you wouldn't even see the smoke. I'm the kind of player that also likes taking my time to the extremes with making decisions and fiddling with the smallest details.

 

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June 25, 2009 8:48:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Same here. As I have said before, RT"S"s eliminate every chance I have to just enjoy the eye candy and epicness factors of a game. Don't worry, Zog: I am reasonably sure that the combat will have a functional pause feature.

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June 25, 2009 9:18:32 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Wasn't combat described as "continuous turn-based"? Still don't really know what that means, but I don't think its going to play like an RTS.

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June 25, 2009 9:49:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I've heard conflicting info about exactly how combat is supposed to work. I'm not entirely sure ifn the devs know themselves! In any case, my understanding is that CTB is a little like chess: one guy from your side moves, then one guy from the other side moves, then you can move another guy, and so on.

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