Age of the Universe?!?!?

By on February 21, 2009 11:15:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

gkrit

Join Date 01/2009
+32

LOL ... i have to mention this...

i just saw, some guy posted (on youtube) that the universe has an age of 14 billions years. Okay, i know jack shit about this topic but how could anyone know when the universe came about. Unless he was joking, but i doubt it coz he had all these other statistics.

i LOL'ed hard at this.

Locked Post 141 Replies
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 21, 2009 11:43:09 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

I'm esimating the universe is near a trillion years old.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 21, 2009 11:48:20 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It is 10 cosmological decades old. But after around the 120th cosmological decade the universe would be essentially nothingness. Heat Death.  

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 21, 2009 11:51:55 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

14 billion years is a widely accepted number in the science community. It was calculated by using some formula based on how the universe has drifted apart sense the big bang or something like that. Of course, almost any releatively large number could be the true one, but we will probably never know for sure.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 21, 2009 11:54:05 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Quoting CreditSuisse,
It is 10 cosmological decades old. But after around the 120th cosmological decade the universe would be essentially nothingness. Heat Death.  

How many years does a cosmological decade take up?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 12:45:59 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Emperor_Seth,

Quoting CreditSuisse, reply 2It is 10 cosmological decades old. But after around the 120th cosmological decade the universe would be essentially nothingness. Heat Death.  

How many years does a cosmological decade take up?

it expands 1 billion to a trillion so on and so forth at least what I herd I more for the the universe expands to point then colapsese in on its self the BOOM  after all its seems built on the the whole repation and animal dies where insects are born kinda thing

its all happend befor and it will all happen again

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 1:07:24 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ok ... if we all think theres an age to the universe, then... wat could there have possibly been before the universe. ive always had the understanding that the universe is the universe and that its everlasting, and time in reference to that is non existant.

TIME (minutes, days, months, years) is something we've made up and because of this, IMO we simply cannot comprehend anything that doesnt have a lifespan, so we put a beginning and an end to everything we know.

The question below is based on the general response to my thread...
do we all believe the universe has only lived for X amount of years just because people with an undeniably well earned status (scientists) say so?

 

... ill leave it to this for now...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 1:29:51 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Estimate is around 20 billion years which is assumed from the Big_Bang **theory** and how the pseudo expanding nature can either implode on itself or keep going for eons.

But i'm more inclined to agree with much more recent "observations & calculations" which implies multiple UniverseS rather than one if the scientific experts are serious about the strings paradoxal but unlimited distance involved.

Esoteric or not, infinity is a word and who are we to contradict it may be colliding with supplemental "grouping" of matter (as defined by OUR own quantum mechanics principles, btw). Is it an exclusive manifestation of phenomenons? Contained & sealed? From what point of reference, i might add? Is it static enough to sustain its own weight? Again, IF we are to admit gravity plays a role.

Lately, chaos has followers since the time continuum seems to prove it while we still can't adapt the concept to a few random occurances out there. Dark matter being just one more key idea that the missing mass has to be somewhere INSIDE this place.

It's even guessed that we're all about 40% into this whole reality (presuming it IS all going to compress right back where it started)... in a scale of Billions, i'll be long gone - that's a given..

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 1:33:39 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums



TIME (minutes, days, months, years) is something we've made up and because of this, IMO we simply cannot comprehend anything that doesnt have a lifespan, so we put a beginning and an end to everything we know.


 


[/quote]

Time is not something we made up all we did was give it numbers and even before we gave time meaning, each thing has its own time of its own. like the day and night for example its always been 12 hours of daytime and 12 hours of night we diddnt make that we just gave it new meaning. and now as far as how old the universe is scientists estaimate the age based on how far light is away from us. and the the farest away we can see is about 14 billion years, thats how far light has expanded from us. now yes the universe may be older but our clock started when the light turned on beacuse thats the only real thing to give numbers to. and remember even god said so himself that he has a beginning and a end so if he exists that must means the the universe had a beginning and a end to.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 2:13:28 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

thats how far light has expanded from us.

 

Well if that's the case, where would we need to place the point of Origin -- in such a materialistic space?

And where are WE relative to that specific location and how far is the furthest matter (detectable by us, btw) from it?

See, ***Time*** is the undeniable source of event(s) IF we lock it TO space as a whole.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 2:31:04 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The point of origin is everywhere. The universe doesn't nor didn't have a center. It's existence, not "a space" but all space. You can't travel to the edge of the universe because no matter where you go, you're still at the center of existence, at least relative space...space that is observable to you.

The age of the universe is estimated by the age of light reaching us from the backround radiation common to all the universe (the cooling rate of the universe helps us determine an age.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe

The universe didn't expand into a different space, there simply was nothing before it started, and there is nothing outside of it. There's no such thing as an outside to the universe.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 2:41:41 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Wow.

It seems everyone here only knows 'jack' about the subject, but they chime in anyway.

The estimate is based on a currently observed expansion rate, then backtracked to the 'Big Bang'. (a simplified explaination, to be sure)

Trouble now is, the expansion rate has been observed to be increasing over time. As in - the more time elapsed, the faster the expansion rate. (do a search for 'expansion rate is increasing' and see what you come up with)

Before this discovery it was assumed that the expansion rate should be decreasing due to the effects of gravity, giving rise to a cyclic universe that would expand and contract in an infinite cycle. Then enters into the equation the effects of 'dark matter' and 'dark energy', which seems to change everything around because neither of them seem to adhere to known physics principles.

 

If the expansion rate has been ever-increasing from (nearly) the beginning, then the universe is somewhat younger than estimated. If it continues to increase, the 'Heat Death' mentioned by CreditSuisse (probably should be termed 'Cold Death') would happen much sooner.

And if the expansion rate continues to increase, there will be no contraction and no 'Big Crunch' and subsequent 'Big Bang'.

So, if it turns out that our universe expires because of this factor - it will mean that the universe (at least our own personal space-time continuum version of it) is both the first, and the last. It begins, and ends - here. There is nothing more to be said or done.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 2:41:50 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Space and time are inextricably linked.  They are two aspects of the same thing.  Our form of measurment is purely a human construct, yes, but time's nature is as finite as that of space.  That is why time is relative, and why time is altered when space is altered.

There's a lot of universe to look at, and so it's difficult to determine the single point from which all began.  There may or may not be a point at which all ends too.  As appropriate to the topic at hand...Time Will Tell.

Just because you can't comprehend what might or might not have come before the universe we know, doesn't simply rule out the concept outright.  If one can't imagine what was before the universe, it's likely to be due to a lack of imagination on our part.

But, the universe did begin...and it will end.  Something likely existed before it...and something will likely exist after it.  What any of that was or might be, won't matter one bit to us, really.  I'm just curious...I'm always curious.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 2:57:40 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Space and time are inextricably linked. They are two aspects of the same thing.

But, can you define the relationship of (and between) these things?

It's the same as love and hate. Up and down. In and out. Good and evil.

What is the relationship that time has to space, or that space has to time? Exactly? That each expands equally, or to some ratio of the other?

How does time affect space, or visa versa?

You say that time and space are but two aspects of the same thing. So, it is like a coin with two faces - but there are three aspects to the coin. There is the face, the back, and the medium connecting them.

Define 'Time'. And while you're at it - define 'Space' and the 'Connecting Medium' and how they relate to each other.

And where does Mass (and Matter) and Gravity come into play? Because they are inextricably linked as well.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 3:12:39 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting kev9824,


 and now as far as how old the universe is scientists estaimate the age based on how far light is away from us. and the the farest away we can see is about 14 billion years, thats how far light has expanded from us.

 

is that suggesting the universe has a size? its said to have a size due to the big bang but what was beyond this big bang thingy before the universe was created?

i agree with verybad's last sentence, that there is nothing more than just the universe itself. But i was just scanning through the wikipedia site on this and there is too much stuff to take into consideration about the whole topic of the universe.
so im actually gonna invest a bit of time reading it coz its interesting.

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 3:18:00 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The ordeal of the Universe's age has already been discussed, so I wont touch up on that. But as for the Universe being in existince and whatnot...

There has been an interesting theory rolling around the scientific world that explains the phenomena of an ever expanding universe. It wont crunch, but our universe will die.

You see, recent discoveries have pointed out that something can be made out of nothing (from a void can be pulled particles and anti-particles). Particles and A-Particles exist opposite of each other, but for each P there is an AP. If they colide, a violent burst of energy is produced, and then there is nothing.

The theory rolling around states that our current universe was created from a void in space allowing two 3dimensions collide and producing a burst of matter and a-matter in a violent firey burst (known as the big bang). It is well accepted by most scientist that 10 different dimensions exist, for they can be proven in a mathematical sense and they help explain occurances that can not be explaines simply by visual observation. Anyway, as the universe expands and grows older, the universe begins to dissolve. Matter collide with anti-matter, and the universe is again a void, thus the cycle begins anew.

To better visualize the collision, think of two flags in the wind. If there is nothing between them, they are likely to collide, but with nothing seperating the two, it is only a matter of time.

 

btw the universe is 13.73 billion years old +/- .12billion years

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 3:20:41 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting gkrit,

Quoting kev9824, reply 8
 

is that suggesting the universe has a size? its said to have a size due to the big bang but what was beyond this big bang thingy before the universe was created?


 

 

yes the universe has a size, its aproximately 156billion light years wide

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 3:24:25 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Moosetek13,

Space and time are inextricably linked. They are two aspects of the same thing.
But, can you define the relationship of (and between) these things?

It's the same as love and hate. Up and down. In and out. Good and evil.

What is the relationship that time has to space, or that space has to time? Exactly? That each expands equally, or to some ratio of the other?

How does time affect space, or visa versa?

You say that time and space are but two aspects of the same thing. So, it is like a coin with two faces - but there are three aspects to the coin. There is the face, the back, and the medium connecting them.

Define 'Time'. And while you're at it - define 'Space' and the 'Connecting Medium' and how they relate to each other.

And where does Mass (and Matter) and Gravity come into play? Because they are inextricably linked as well.

 

E=MC^2

Theory of relativity made famous by einstein, this explains the relationship between time and space. I can explain the relationship if you like.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 3:40:50 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Quoting Kurenkino,



 

E=MC^2

Theory of relativity made famous by einstein, this explains the relationship between time and space. I can explain the relationship if you like.

Please do.

But note that E=MC^2 deals with Energy, Mass and the speed of light (C). If you want to add Time into that - good luck.

I am all ears.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 4:01:10 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Moosetek13,

Quoting Kurenkino, reply 17


 


Please do.

But note that E=MC^2 deals with Energy, Mass and the speed of light (C). If you want to add Time into that - good luck.

I am all ears.

 

You misunderstand the theory, it deals with time and space, and how our energy is devoted to each one, let me explain.

Think of a 2 dimensional plane, X direction and Y direction. You can devote all of your energy into moving a object through Y, through X, you can divide it equally and go half X half Y, or some other variation. Now, think of how that equation would look, the amount of energy you put in would be proportional to which direction you were moving, and how much mass you were moving. Thus, it would look something like E=MXY. Now, if we were to make X be the fastest you could travel through space (the speed of light), and Y be the fastest you can travel through time (yes, there is a speed at which we travel through time), you would see that your energy cant be maxed out both ways. Thus, the max speed you travel through space is equal to the max speed you travel through time. (C=T) Since we have no real way to calculate the max speed of time, or to show it mathematically, we show it along with its equivalent (C^2).

Thus by looking at E=MC^2, you can see how time and space are directly inproportionate of each other. We exist somewhere in the middle. But something like light would (through this mathematics) be timeless, it would not age, decay, or anything of the sort. Light has no mass, therefor a small amount of energy can send it flying max speed through space. We move relative to the objects around us, so we have no real way to calculate the speed we fly through space, so we have no real way to calculate how fast we are traveling through time. Everything is 'Relative' to what we percieve. thus, the theory of relativity.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 4:01:57 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Moosetek13,


I am all ears.

Technically, you're all eyes, lol.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 4:36:03 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 4:53:44 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

This thread and the M-theory thread go hand in hand. If any of you haven't yet checked it out you probably should because it addresses many of the same issues.

http://forums.galciv2.com/340509

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 5:23:09 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Kurenkino,
Light has no mass, therefor a small amount of energy can send it flying max speed through space.

 

Photon have no mass at rest state... light is made of photon moving... once moving, photon have a mass, related to their energy... Einstein wrote it with the following equation : Dm = dEk / C^2 ... when stopped a photon have his mass fully transformed in energy... This leads to Einstein's famous conclusion that energy and mass are manifestations of the same phenomena...

 

The best universally accepted upper limits on the photon mass are 1.1×10−52 kg (6×10−17 eV/c2, or 1×10−22 me). It is very little but it is not nothing...

 

So, light have a mass related to his energy and his speed... speed of light is not a constant... the "c" used in the equation is the speed of light in the vacuum... light travelling trough matter, let say any transparent one, have a speed lower that the speed of light... light from the core of our sun take around a million year for reach the surface of the sun by example...

 

So, light ( and photon ) have a mass when moving... once stopped, these mass is fully converted in energy ( photon and light stop to exist )... some of these energy can be absorbed and some send back in the form of a lower energy light/photon... by example, visual light is converted in energy when hit a black surface... later, these black surface can emit a new light in the infra-red level ( lower energy )... these infra-red is the "warm feeling" of the light...

 

If light ( photon ) was without any mass, how can you explain that light is absorbed with gravitational monster like black hole, how light trajectory is curved by massive galaxy and create gravitational lens... the no mass is only a theoric thing, related to a photon not moving... try to find a photon who is not moving !!! Once movement stop, all mass is converted to energy and photon stop to exist...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 5:24:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I saw on discovery channel about some scientist guy who suggested that the inflation problem of the expanding early universe could be solved by saying that lightspeed is a function rather than a constant. If the lightspeed slows down as the universe gets older, then it might be a bit younger than what is predicted today. I wouldn't call it a crazy idea, after all, even very clever people have assumed certain things to be constants even though later work has proven that those are variable. An example would be Newtons formulas for kinetical energy that really proved to be a low-speed aproximations of Einsteins more advanced formulas, showing that Newton really dropped the apple on that one.

More details at wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_speed_of_light

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 22, 2009 5:29:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Thoumsin,


If light ( photon ) was without any mass, how can you explain that light is absorbed with gravitational monster like black hole, how light trajectory is curved by massive galaxy and create gravitational lens... the no mass is only a theoric thing, related to a photon not moving... try to find a photon who is not moving !!! Once movement stop, all mass is converted to energy and photon stop to exist...

But if photons had mass, then they wouldn't be able to reach the speed of light... Perhaps gravity can bend both energy and mass since they are translational according to the formula previous posters flashed around.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108433  walnut3   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000719   Page Render Time: