Elemental's Subsystem Concepts

Spartan

Join Date 03/2006

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Elemental's Subsystem Concepts

What would you like to see included?

After reading another thread about the econ system I started to think about all the systems that would be needed for the game. Consequently of the top of my head, for me I think complementing variants of the following subsystems should developed for the game.

Alpha Centari's faction system
Crusader Kings heir/lineage system
Total War's Vices & Virtues & Traits system
Silent Hunter3's avatar & crew progression system
Capitalism2's production system
GalCiv2's tech system
SimCity4's urban development system
MoMs magic system
Oblivion's character creation system
Battle for Middle Earth's campaign map system
Imperialism2's econ system
Dwarf Fortess's world system
Wizardy 8's quest designs and character dialog system
Civ4's exploration and empire management system

What other systems do you folks think would be needed and why if it is not inherently obvious.

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Quoting pigeonpigeon,

reply 24

3) However, I don't think trade should be instantaneous, but it should use the caravan system. If you just trade for a specific amount of a resource, a caravan should set out from one end and make its way to the other. If you set up a constant trade route, caravans should constantly head back and forth. This would make trading with close nations easier due to both distance and danger. A caravan coming from far away will be much more likely to be raided than one coming from your next-door neighbor.

I also think that foreign caravans traveling through a nation's territory should generate some income for that nation. This would actually provide some protection for caravans - if you raid every caravan that comes through your territory people are going to choose a different trade route and you will lose that secondary income. However, if you allow all caravans to pass through your territory, even those heading to your enemies, you could gain a reputation for being gracious. The AI could calculate the safety/value of different trade routes and nations' reputations regarding foreign trade could be a major factor. So if you're in a central location, or between two major powers, it might be worthwhile to allow trade to pass freely through your lands and become a major trading hub. If you're hostile to trade, routes might be diverted around your nation, sacrificing the shorter route through your nation for a safer, longer one.

Basically, simulation of major trade routes and associated benefits would be amazing. For this to work well, trading would need to be a major part of the game - which I think would be a very good thing. Resources should be dependent on terrain, and abundant but scattered enough so that most nations will have a surplus of some things but shortfalls of others, making trade very mutually beneficial.

I think that this idea is absolutely fantastic, and proper implementation of this aspect alone would set this game apart. Have some Karma.

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Oblivion's character creation system

Have you ever taken a look at the character creation system in Darklands? As the game is abandonware, you should be able to download it easily enough. I've never seen anything as good for giving your character, not just a selection of skills, but fusing them to a fictional background, anchoring the figure you've created in time and place.

Civ4's exploration and empire management system

What I think I liked best about Civ4 was its diplomatic feedback system, explaining exactly what was affecting the reaction of an AI to you, positively and negatively, and by how much. Hope you include that.

Capitalism2's production system

Have you taken a look at what Ascaron did with production and economics in Patrician III and Port Royale II? Definitely worth a look. It's extremely detailed and almost certainly beyond what you want to offer to your audience, but there could be ideas in it you find effective, and easily implemented.

Wizardy 8's quest designs and character dialog system

Never much cared for the Wizardry dialog system: far too much hit and miss, plenty of frustration from word trials that brought up nothing. What about the kind of thing done in NWN2 (and the forthcoming Age of Decadence), where you get a dialog tree with extra branches if your character has certain skills, or done certain quests, or hit certain achievements?

I'd also like to suggest adding a conversation category for "gossip" between mage rulers. Freebies, offered gratis about another of your peers, that may be accurate, partially accurate, or completely inaccurate--and could be well meant, depending on your relationship with the AI, and/or an attempt to sow discord or manipulate you into making a decision they want.

Just some thoughts. This really sounds excellent, so far. Best of luck with it!

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@Barry -I can't say I have played the games you named. Additionally the list represents the collective wisdom on the people who contributed to it. If there are no arguments against the systems you listed I will add and replace accordingly.

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Indeed, Patrician III and Port Royal do have things to contribute to an economic system.

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I think you've posed some very interesting material for discussion, Spartan. I certainly don't mean to steal your thunder, but only figured you might be curious about the games I've mentioned and their subsystems, too. I doubt Stardock will add anything on the basis of what either of us lists--they have a very definite and clear concept in mind!--but it certainly hurts nothing to discuss this kind of thing. And you have good taste in your choices, which mean they frequently mirror my own.

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@Barry - Thanks. Also there is no thunder stealing happening. On the contrary the point of this thread as I stated is to determine what we consider the best gaming subsystems collectively. I also agree with your opinion about all this being pretty much academic but you never know. I like to look at it as a sort of moot court for game design effort. Moot courts are a great learning experiences and almost always provide a solid foundation for future endeavors.

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If I could suggest something to look at in regards to Civ4's Empire Management.

Civ4's EM is more along the style of city-state management. IE: You issue orders per city. Call to Power 2 took this one step further and actually had a TRUE EM in that you could pool resources and issue commands to the Empire as a whole and your units and cities would do their best to meet that order. The orders were mostly generic (when directing national strategy) but could be specific when needed (public works building infrastructure).

So for example you could focus your nation on defense buildup and your city governors would automatically focus on archers, walls, and other defensive build options. This style of EM allowed for a more hands-off approach if you hated micro-managing 25-50 cities and gave you the feeling of a leading your Empire towards a real national goal, whilst still allowing the intricate city-management we're accustomed to in Civ4.

Just my little suggestion.

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